http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7343735.stm

NO NO NO NO

Even the Cardiff supporters club doesn't want it.

Also God save the Queen is the anthem of the whole of Great Britain(which Wales is part of) and not just England. If anything they should scrap that and change it with Land of Hope and Glory.

Its the English F.A cup and if they don't like it they know were they can go. (Same for anyone else outside football who are so anti English but still live here anyway lets not get onto that)

The F.A should do like international matches with both teams singing thier national anthems.

Are you for real? If you are, how would that work with two English clubs more often than now, generally with two very multinational squads?

But the teams are both usually english clubs, now theres a welsh side I have no problem with their national anthem being played.

Not sure what all the fuss is about.

In that case yes but no anthem for England is being played. God save the queen is not for England but for Britain as a whole while land of my fathers is just solely for wales.

That is what I find unfair with that while Wales and Scotland for that matter have their own anthems ,while England which is the biggest of all the home nations get God save the queen which is for Britain.

So in this F.A cup final it should just be god save the queen as that covers England and Wales.

Cardiff City will Boo and Hiss right through it!


Cardiff being a very Welsh club (well they think they are)


of course Swansea being more...... British! ;)

I think the point that they are trying to make it that it's not England v Wales.

I'm sure Southampton fans won't be cheering on Pompy because they are the English club!!

Likewise I'm guessing Swansea fans would love Pompy to stuff Cardiff, even though Cardiff are the Welsh club!

Personally I'm rooting for the underdogs. Does that make me any less English? No!

Of course not. Just as I would never cheer on Arsenal in europe.

Pompey till July! im Pompey till July, i know i am, im sure i am, im Pompey till July! :lol:

Because why play the british & welsh anthems in the english f.a cup?

If there are any anthems played it should be "land of hope and glory"

Play up Pompey, Pompey play up.

In the play off final they didn't play the English or Welsh national anthem. I think it was because they didn't want to cause problems. For the FA Cup the English anthem has to be played because its a very important part of the day, then as a mark of respect the Welsh one should then follow.

There is no doubt Cardiff fans will boo 'God Save the Queen', its viewed as the English anthem not the British over here.

As has been said on here before, the use of particular anthems in the UK is pure convention as no anthems for the UK or its constituent countries have ever been officially adopted by Royal Proclamation or Act of Parliament. It would be quite legitimate to use "Abide With Me", "Land of Hope and Glory" or even "Anarchy in the UK" as the British, English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish anthem.

Not only that, but I think that "God Save the Queen" is historically an English rather than British song (albeit from after the Union), especially considering the line in the fourth verse about crushing rebellious scots. If anything it's Britain, not England, that needs a new anthem.

But very few in England consider it 'the English anthem'.

Play both anthems.

Whats the problem? The Football league has accomodated between 3 aqnd 6 Welsh clubs for nearly 100 years. Yes it's the English league, but it does contain Welsh clubs, and I'd say that playing both anthems is the mature, fair and sensible way to do things.

We shouldn't be afraid of change, or something a bit different, and it'll be a good pub quiz question in a few years.

Variety is the spice of life guys, and besides The Welsh anthem has a lovely tune!

We need an "english anthem"

The Welsh play in our league and cup by invitation - they're not in a position to start demanding that we play their anthem. Anyway to be fair im sure most Cardiff fans couldnt care less its only the two-bob minister of Wales whatever his name is who seems to be kicking up a fuss.

The majority of Cardiff fans wouldnt know the words to their own supposed anthem anyway - twenty thousand taffs looking like John Redwood mouthing away pretending they know what they're singing.

We do yes.

What has annoyed me is a politician getting involved in it. Another thing didn't Hereford (don't hold me to this I am not sure) once win the Welsh cup and did they get a Uefa cup place?

yeah think they did they were the last english club to do so i think it was in 1990 (mite be wrong but pretty positive)

There's no need for anthems in club football anyway.

i can't believe so many people actually give a flying trout!

Lots of English used to play in the Welsh Cup for some reason, before my time. I've heard the stories about when we played panathanaikos, and lost to Monaco 8-0 :lol: But now only league of wales teams are in it. We just enter the Faw Cup at the quarter final stage.

And someone above is right, most people dont know the words to the anthem, disgrace. I know all the words, yet its a bit of a mouth full. I think its about a dragon in a cave, but I dropped Welsh in Year 9, at last.

only the english clubs that were close to the border of wales played in it i.e. shrewsbury, chester etc

Personally, this constant paranoia is one of the reasons I'm glad to be an Englishman in exile in Wales-And long may it continue, with bitter views like these around.

I don't even think it necessarily should be played, but the thought of it upsetting so many miserable old conservative sods makes me think they should!

The sky won't fall in if The Welsh National Anthem is played. Get a grip!

Well I wonder what the Scots would feel about an English anthem in their cup final if Berwick ever reached the final : )

I hate nationalism whatever it is; English, Welsh, American, whatever.

Why is the English nation seemingly in such a fragile state that the playing of another anthem sends some all wobbly and into a fit of rage? It doesn't create a good image of England if you ask me.

We are all part of Britain for god sake, so it really quite saddens me that people get their knickers so twisted

National anthems don't get played at club games up here. B)

Good that is probably the right way to do things! I am sure if you did however you would not like any kind of English anthem.

In reply to james-I feel the problem is that English nationalism is not allowed and we are constantly told that we are british and not English whereas the Welsh & Scots are allowed their identities, their anthems, their assemblies/parliaments, more constituencies per head & are allowed to hate us but heaven forbid we ourselves dislike anything Welsh or Scottish hey?

in reply to your reply to james - read his post again. He said he hates nationalism of whatever brand. Your argument is like a little kid saying, "he did it first". Why can't we behave like narrow minded idiots because other countries are allowed to? Grow up.
I think james' original post sums up neatly a lot of the anti-english sentiment felt by mancs / scousers which everyone else here seems to struggle to understand. Nationalism is an ugly, unnecessary thing whether you're english, scottish, welsh or iranian. Calling it "national pride" or some such tenche doesn't disguise it or make it alright.

Here we go again....

Nationalism is just an extension of localism or regionalism. Calling nationalism ugly is just the most stupid thing ive ever heard - and by nationalism I mean pride in your country. Why is a national rivalry more ugly than a regional one - would you Mancs be happy at YNWA being played at Old Trafford if the Scousers suddenly demanded it - you'd be bleating on for weeks.

As ive said before a lot of Cardiff fans couldnt care less if the Welsh Anthem is played or not - personally I dont think it should be just because some faceless Welsh MP has demanded it.

Hence why there is no need for Land of our fathers. Wales is part of Britain and so is England. God save the Queen is the British anthem so thats all that should be played.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D (stupid smiley clappy thing)


Well said that man. I think taking Portugal flags to games and all that, and telling us to stick our trouting england up our arse it just as stupid.

and if regionalism was taken to the same extent as nationalism is i'd be equally distancing myself from being "manc" as i currently do from being "english". We (currently) don't have people on forums such as these decrying the fact that scousers can live and work in manchester or play in our manchester football teams. It's a gross over-simplification to say that nationalism is an extension of regionalism - there are stark differences for everyone to see.

It's another misconception that English nationalism isn't allowed. Of course it is..there is nothing stopping you celebrating St georges day, or flying an English flag, or starting a chapter of the English Nationalist party if you so please. Saying that English nationalism isnt allowed is just another example of the 'I'm so woeful' and overlooked' nature of modern England. Wales isn't a threat to 'English culture' There's nothing for folk in Newcastle, Torquay or East london to fear in hearing 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' played at wembley.

And Welsh people don't hate England at all. Of course a small minority may, but cardiff is 20% English born people..I have many many welsh friends having been here for almost 10 years, and all are hugely friendly. I imagine you are just as likely to get grief in some parts of England for being Welsh as you are in Wales for being English.

Again, I state that I'm not bothered either way whether it's played, but if you are against it being played, then a better reason should be given than paranoid English arguments about different cultures.

There were some Welsh nationalist who made themselves sound like fools by moaning about God Save the Queen being played before the cup finals in cardiff..equally ridiculous and futile to those arguing here.

English lyrics are below by the way. I'm sure you'll agree the lyrics are nice!

The land of my fathers, the land of my choice,
The land in which poets and minstrels rejoice;
The land whose stern warriors were true to the core,
While bleeding for freedom of yore.

Chorus

Wales! Wales! fav'rite land of Wales!
While sea her wall, may naught befall
To mar the old language of Wales.

Old mountainous Cambria, the Eden of bards,
Each hill and each valley, excite my regards;
To the ears of her patriots how charming still seems
The music that flows in her streams.

My country tho' crushed by a hostile array,
The language of Cambria lives out to this day;
The muse has eluded the traitors' foul knives,
The harp of my country survives.

Just makes me laugh - the hypocrisy of it all. You constantly bemoaning any form of national pride and criticising people who want to restrict the number of foreigners in England and yet the thought of say Gerrard signing for United would have you foaming with rage.

Regionalism if anything is taken to a greater extent than Nationalism - the hatred between Man United and Liverpool is just as bad as any national rivalry involving England. Get off your high horse for gods sake...

But going back to the original point - its the English Cup Final where GSTQ is played every year and therefore the Welsh Anthem has no place. As ive said before the majority of the Taffs dont know the words to it anyway.......

Yes, you're right, the hatred between us and them is as bad as any rivalry in the country. But, as i've already pointed out, that rivalry does not extend to areas of everyday life like whether or not you have a right to live, work etc. in an area you weren't born in does it? We would be up in arms if we signed Gerrard but nobody wouold claim he shouldn't legally be allowed into manchester (although now you'vwe brought it up it doesn't sound like too bad an idea ;) )

for your argument comparing our rivalry with liverpool with english nationalism to have any credence at all we'd have to be constantly calling for controls over the number of scousers allowed in manchester and for quotas in the numbers of players actually from manchester playing for united.

Actually it's the FA Cup final, which does and has for a hundred years contained many Welsh clubs. I can't recall too much sentiment to it being the English Cup when the FA realised the bucks that could be made by staging it in Cardiff for several years. (which incidentally, having now been to Wembley, I really miss)

The final is between a Welsh club and an English club...there is your reason for playing two anthems! It's not a complex theory!

As an aside, I'd say there is pretty good knowledge of the welsh anthem amongst people here in Wales...and I certainly don't know many English folk who know the second verse to GSTQ, but then it does get pretty tiresome after bellowing a desire to be reigned over!

Sod it all anyway, who cares really..I don't either way, but at least I've not resorted to petty nationalism about it like Talksport and some of the other knuckle-dragging media has. Thats what bugs me...the need for taff-bashing, or frog-bashing, or krout-bashing, whenever 'English culture' comes into play. It's so frickin tiresome, and depressing.

Right my last word about this.....

Its the English FA Cup Final, Welsh teams are invited to take part just as they are invited into our league. You have a League of Wales and a cup competition of your own that you should be playing in but thanks to England you can play in our competitions and experience competitive football and all the other benefits that they bring. Guests are not in a position to start demanding what the hosts should or should not do. If you dont like it then withdraw from playing in England and go and play in the League of Wales and you can play your anthem before every game if you wish.....

On a side note I dont recall Hereford or Shrewsbury demanding what anthem should be played when they used to get to the final of the Welsh Cup....GSTQ would never have been played there so why the hell should it be any different now the shoe is on the other foot....

I wish I never started this thread now.


Anyway what annoyed me is a Welsh Anthem could be played but no English one GSTQ is not the English anthem its the British anthem(which just happens to be used by the fa and most other sporting boards expect the commonwealth games for England). Also politics getting in the way as well.

That's because, just like the fourth verse, it is no longer used. Only the first, and occasionally the third (which I assume is the one you meant, and which incidentally, I do happen to know the words to), verses are used.

I think there is some confusion between nationalism (the political ideology) and patriotism (national pride). While I, like a few others on here, oppose nationalism and racial (or other similar) discrimination in sport or elsewhere, I do not oppose patriotism, although I recognise that there is a fine line between them.

A little about me to illustrate my point: I am English (Kentish to be more precise), and have lived in the same place all my life. All my family (as far as I am aware) are English. Because of this, I identify with English culture more than any other, and with it have a certain taste for tradition and ceremony, as well as English food, drink, humour, music, architecture, scenery etc. In other words, I have a love of many things "English". This is patriotism, or "cultural pride" as I will call it. The same can be said with regard to being British, then European and so on, and going the other way to being Kentish etc.

However, I also recognise that there are some aspects of English (and British etc.) culture that are not so good (our history of imperialism for example). I do not claim that England, English culture or the English are superior to other countries, cultures and races, but I have no problem with stating that I prefer England and English culture to other countries and cultures. It is just that: a personal preference. To use the parallel in football: I doubt that most fans (excluding Man U/Liverpool :D ) would claim that their club's ground/support is the best in the world, but that doesn't stop them going to that ground and supporting that club.

In other words, my (albeit slight) patriotism is like my (much greater) support for my club in that it is not blind to any faults/better ways of doing things.

The comparison with the Manchester/Liverpool rivalry is a good one. There are probably some mancs who do think that scousers shouldn't be allowed in Manchester, and vice-versa. For the most part, though, it is limited to banter and a few insults. The same is true for national rivalries. For example, I have no problem with the Welsh. In my experience they are nice people, but that will not stop me from making jokes about them and engaging in banter with the Welsh people I know. If they give the same back, then fair enough. I wouldn't consider that to be racist, or nationalist, but merely patriotic banter.

Getting to the actual topic of the thread, the FA Cup is organised by the English FA, and is generally considered to be the English domestic cup. The original intention was for the FA Cup and what is now the English league system to cover the whole of the UK. This did not materialise, and the system is now the English system, which six Welsh clubs decided, and were allowed to stay in even after the formation of the Welsh system. However, they are only in the system at the discretion of the English FA, and as the FA Cup is an English competition, I do not believe that the Welsh anthem has any place (particularly as they are covered by the British one). Having said that, if they do play it, it's not a big deal and I certainly won't be making a fuss.

I don't mind the arguments either way, as long as silly and offensive taff-bashing is left out of it (I'm english, but my girlfriend and my kids will be brought up predominantly in welsh culture, so I do take offence)

Anyway, it isn't worth getting too excited about. I'm not sure about the invitation thing though..is it really a case of being 'invited' in the league? Cardiff alone have been there since 1920, so many clubs joined the party after them.