Read all about it here...

If you don't want to read all the article the gist is...

Jonanna Trollope is a very middle class 62 year old author; during research for her latest book, she went to watch Chelsea v Portsmouth a couple of years ago and got a seat in the Matthew Harding stand. Prior to the game she has no interest in football or sport in general and on the strength of the game she has now applied for a season ticket.

Anyway she says in the article:

and

Odd that she is attracted to the very things that the powers that be think would put off such people attending games.

Not sure what this has to do with standing and you're usually the first to point out when people are off-topic..

EDIT: Haven't actually read the whole article so am sorry if it does in fact talk about standing.

No, doesn't talk about standing and isn't really campaign related, I just thought it was interesting that a 62 year old, "posh" woman clearly gets what being a football fan is all about, plus rather than being put off by chanting, singing and swearing she clearly loves it!

Claims of inclusivity (i.e. getting more women and children interested in live football) is one of the key weapons of the anti-standing camp.

touche

I've now read three articles by woman least likely you'd expect to like football.

One had to take her son for the first time and was absolutely dreading, but loved the noise and atmosphere. It made the hairs on the back of her neck stand up!! She also said that football supporters were generally more courteous than she thought and for the first time in years a man offered her a seat on the tube. It amused her (and me!) that she freely admitted that the gentlemen concerned was a scary looking skin head!

The second was dragged along to WH v Arsenal by her boyfriend and was not looking forward to it at all, but afterwards she said it was 100 times more exciting that any live event she'd ever attended and that she was esepcially entertained by the "handbags" between Pardew and Wegner. She said it was how she imagined a Roman gladiator arena to be...

Of course it doesn't seem to occur to those intent on a "family" game that woman are actually attracted by the male atmosphere, the noise, the chanting and the ripe language!

People shoudn't be surprised at this sort of attitude. I find rough looking people often make very kind gestures, they often dont behave the same as, say a polished looking person, but deep down they mean well, and indeed show this in different and refreshing actions.

Whilst the people I dislike are middle class posh kids in uni, who have everything from their parents, know how to get people to do what they want, and will long term be very rich. These people are usually the most rude if there is nothing for them to gain from you, whilst the bloke on the tube had nothing to gain, just a nice gesture. I go to uni with a lot of those types of people, and I know I'd rather be around an honest WC person than a MC person, who is merely polite to you if it means they will earn something long term.

But anyway back to the point. Its great that those women think that, but sadly I find the majority of women go to the football with their kids, and think that your from a different planet if you show passion. Sorry Amanda, but I think women like your self and the women mentioned are in the minority.

not strictly true i know plenty of middle class kids who are sound

Speak to 100 different people and you'll get 100 different views on woman and football.

As NW7Yid pointed out, it is refreshing to hear from woman who do enjoy football for footballs sake as it flies in the face of the arguments we hear that various aspects of the game we love may put off those new to the game - regardless of their class, colour or sexuality.

To be honest, I've yet to come across anybody personally who has complained about the rowdier supporters or is put off by language and songs that are not in the best of taste, although visit message boards of all clubs and you'll find many that have a personal threshold that shouldn't be crossed regardless of how long they've been a supporter for.

I would point out though that parents from any class are inclined to protect their kids from what they view as harmful or offensive...

Horses for courses, as they say...

Most of the people round us at Reading are season ticket holders but the two seats next to my brother are now on general sale each game.

At the Liverpool game a women and her kid turned up who was clearly wouldn’t have been there if it wasn’t for the chance of her getting to watch Gerrard and co.

She sat quietly all game until the ref made a series of questionable decision causing the usual torrent of abuse.

This caused the women to say the immortal line “I don’t think football is the appropriate place for that type of language”.

She then spent the whole match tutting and sighing whenever a slightly naughty word was used.

She really makes me wonder what happened to the club I used to know, when I went as a kid it was the atmosphere I enjoyed more than the football (and the promise of learning new words I wasn’t allowed to use outside of football of course).

On the other hand there’s an oldish woman next to me who always sings, only occasionally swears (Rob Styles has that effect on anybody),
follows us around the country, used to work at Elm Park and even baby sat Neil Webb when his dad played for us, I’d much rather sit next to her than any potty mouthed chav.

Yeah mostly random ranting but there’s nothing wrong with women at football in theory, just depends on the women, exactly the same applies for men.

Disagree really, most people I've met while at Uni have been great I'd say only two or three match your description out of dozens. Even the 10-15 of very middle class people, most of those have been okay - several are extremely middle class, while also being top blokes. Incidentally, some of them also like to stand at the football :P You can't really boil everything in life down into simple classes like that - I mean, you'd probably be up in arms if I started calling every working class person a chav, and quite rightly so, this isn't any different - those people exist, but they aren't everyone. One of my closest friends is middle class and at university and has had plenty of help from his family along the way (oh, and is a rugby fan! :P ) but he's the nicest guy you could hope to meet, would help out anyone and certainly isn't just some spoiled brat. The people who were the worst that I've met while at uni have been the 2 least and the 2 most posh, plus one more guy who was pretty much in between. Everyone else has been alright and 2 out of about 60 who meet your stereotype isn't bad.


Women who aren't there just to bring their kids along might not be the majority but they are a very sizable minority of women - when I've gone to see Cardiff play, on some occasions almost a third of people of the Bob Bank have been women and Leicester also have a fairly sizable minority of women like that at home and away. If they are putting so much effort into getting women to football matches, its unfair on these people to be ignored because they fail to meet the stereotypes, just like its not fair on other people to be stereotyped as hooligans.

NWAF

She may not be a grannie but she's 66 and middle class - good interview with Delia in this week's Radio Times. Talking about football:

"It's wonderful for young people to be shouting and stamping their feet, rather than out on the street. Nothing nurtures a sense of community like football. But Sky TV came in with all this money and clever people created the Premiership, which is ruining it. The average age of a supporter buying a ticket is 40. It's outrageous, and needs the Government to step in and threaten to regulate it".

Go Delia!

Although don't necessarily agree that the Government need to step in to regulate things.

Very true. Since the days of almost everyone living their entire lives in the same area have largely disappeared, it's probably the only remnant left of the old "community spirit" that people are always going on about. Through football I've met people whose jobs range from postman to chemical engineer, all united by the club, or just football in general.

With regards to people taking kids, swearing etc. The answer is simple: Allocate an area (or two: one home, one away) of the ground as a "family-friendly" section, with a (near) zero-tolerance policy on swearing, and take a lenient stance on the rest of the ground, letting fans know which areas are which before they buy tickets. Some non-League clubs do this (officially or unofficially) and it seems to suit everybody.

The 'community spirit' is fading however. There used to be a time, when, if a lad in a chelsea top walked past me, we used to have an acknowledgement of each other, with an 'up the chels' etc. almost as if we knew one another. Those times, sadly, have long gone. People in tops nowadays blank you as if your some sort of voyeur. Even at the ground, with the goal came an en masse celebration, hugging the person closest to you regardless of whether you knew them or not. Such a shame :(

I was simply going by my own experiences at Maidstone United. Customs such as hugging the person next to you in celebration and acknowledging other fans in the street are alive and well down here! People sometimes stop me in the street and talk about the Stones, particularly those who remember the old Conference/Football League days and want to know how soon we're coming home (how I wish I could give a definate answer!).

I suppose it's not the same at the top any more due to the influx of daytrippers and armchair fans. Shame really.

Comes with the territory of being a fan of a successful club. It's not got to that stage with Tottenham yet - I dread the day when I'll get a miffed look when I say 'come on you Spurs' to a lad in a shirt.

I know, really can't have it both ways any more. Still, that's what this site is for.

when i went to america i was wearing my liverpool shirt and all the yanks were coming up to me talking to me about liverpool, glory hunting bastards..............

All good in Div 4. On holiday with my Wycombe shirt I will get stopped a few times to chat about football - knowing waring a Wycombe shirt Im no glory hunter. It is friendly but we can make a racket when we want (unfortuntely not too often).
Problem for most Premiership sides are when you see your tema sshirt with the exception of Wigan the person probably doesnt go to the games. I did find out someone who trains with my side who wears a Man Utd top is actually a united STH !!!! This is Wycombe FFS. :blink:

Yes that still happens here sometimes. Not so much in Luton itself. (its a sad thing for a town the same size of Sunderland but I wouldn't say L.T.F.C is the most supported club in the town (partly the club is to blame in marketing), to many Arsenal Chelsea's etc etc. Thats why I believe in supporting your local team whoever it is). Outside of the town though when I see another Luton shirt usually gets the thumbs up or have a chat. Even met a Luton fan in a sports and soccer up in Newcastle when I was 15 many moons ago.
Hugging people next to ya. Brilliant always remember Palace away in our first game in the year after we got promoted in Division 2 or Championship or whatever it is called.

Sorry I went off topic. Women in football why not. I daresay some women love the atmosphere just as much as some men do. I hate all this favoritisms though from the powers at be e.g

All seaters = More women and family friendly :angry:

As for unhappy about swearing what did you expect at a football match I bet the rugby fans do the same.

is it trout the club's fault. "marketing" should have no bearing whatsoever on which team you support.

Well it does not for me. I'm born in Luton, hence I support them. But how comes many "bigger teams" shirts are seen around the town. The new support for a team like Luton needs to come from somewhere and up to now no one at the club has tried to get them in (yeah the crowds went up when we were in The champ but since we come back down they are lower than ever). Hopefully now with the club in the right hands something can be done.

Look a few years back on a billboard literally 2 minutes away from Kenilworth road SPURS where advertising Season tickets and membership . I heard Charlton are doing the same in Gillingham. I know I agree with you, I wish words like marketing would never be associated with football and in my ideal world everyone would support the team from were they come from unfortunately this is not the case.


Whos fault is it then. I more blame the people of Luton (bar the ones who do go to Luton). But the old board (pre 2020) did nothing at all to get the next generation of fans in. Look at my old School I was one of 13 Luton fans in my year out of 200 odd and that was a few years back I guess it be less now.

it's the parents of these kids' fault. why have they let them grow up supporting some out of town, "big" club. madness.

Yup exactly but, a lot of the people in Luton though descend from people who come from the London overspill(I am on my mothers side). Which is why many people who follow Arsenal etc because their family does. Now I, despite some of my rantings about supporting your local team I can understand this IF THEY GO TO THE GAMES saying that I have only met one Chelsea S/T holder out of all the so called Chelsea I have met.

It must be annoying for you seeing people who claim to support your team when they don't. I admit before I came here I believed every Man U fans is the stereotype Surrey Red because this is what I see.

Also onto the parents a few people I knew when I was younger who follow the bigger teams families aren't interested in football when their kids are. They go for the big clubs because this is what they hear about. Ah who am I kidding I know many people whose family has lived In Luton for generations follow the bigger teams.

How it is related to standing:
The authorities usually come up with justifications for forcing everyone to sit down such as it has encouraged families, women and obviously older people as they can sit in comfort. I know she was probably sitting for the entire game but I'm sure this old lady would back the campaign and add weight to our campaign, has anybody got in touch with her?

Alot more women go to football now than in my youth and I find their reactions vary from one end of the spectrum to the other. There are some who really annoy me with their tutting and filthy looks at some of the more choice language, but there are other young girls that never cease to amaze me with their ability to be twice as loud and foul mouthed as any of the blokes!

I love that football lets the uncivilised me out for the day! I spend all week being a nice middle manager in a caring profession, and then spend my saturday afternoons swearing and shouting abuse at people. When people ask me why I choose the Lower Holte over parts of the ground with a better view, including the Upper Holte where theres also more singing, I always say it's because I like to feel that the opposition players, the ref, and most of all, the linesman can hear me!

Even at Arsenal a couple of weeks ago when I wasn't very happy about our Eduardo songs, it was still the "football me" that had a go at everyone around me about it. I wouldn't want to repeat much of what I said here! Even so, I know the blokes around me were probably thinking "Why do women come to football?"