Title: How Many Close Calls Were There Before Hillsbrough
nufc - February 21, 2008 10:57 AM (GMT)
1987 Tottenham Hotspur (a) 0-1 (0-1)
FA Cup 5th Round
C.Allen(pen)
38,033
Two years before Hillsborough, Newcastle fans were almost the victim of callous policing by the Met, as the Park Lane end was allowed to become dangerously overcrowded while adjacent paddocks remained closed.
The first few United fans to climb over the fences were arrested but gradually dozens joined in and fought with stewards to open gates on to the pitch. In an eerie echo of the Hillsborough tragedy, seated fans pulled some of those below to safety and disaster was averted.
The police's reaction was to stretch a line of officers in front of the away section which blotted out any view of the match. After the final whistle a vain attempt at holding the United fans back resulted in gates being forced and running battles taking place near the ground as furious fans vented their anger.
Press reports subsequently estimated the travelling support at 14,000.
FA Cup 5th Round
C.Allen(pen)
38,033
Two years before Hillsborough, Newcastle fans were almost the victim of callous policing by the Met, as the Park Lane end was allowed to become dangerously overcrowded while adjacent paddocks remained closed.
The first few United fans to climb over the fences were arrested but gradually dozens joined in and fought with stewards to open gates on to the pitch. In an eerie echo of the Hillsborough tragedy, seated fans pulled some of those below to safety and disaster was averted.
The police's reaction was to stretch a line of officers in front of the away section which blotted out any view of the match. After the final whistle a vain attempt at holding the United fans back resulted in gates being forced and running battles taking place near the ground as furious fans vented their anger.
Press reports subsequently estimated the travelling support at 14,000.
Lord flange - February 21, 2008 11:23 AM (GMT)
Bizarely I was watching ESPN on sky the other night, showing an old Spurs v Arse game from 1987.
The Arsenal end looked dangerously overcrowded and the cameras panned onto fans at the front crushed into the perimeter fencing. Their faces were distorted eerily like those at Hillsborough two years later.
It's quite amazing that the authorities found this crushing so acceptable for so many years
Even without Hillsborough I'm sure that current health and safety laws would have vastly reduced many terrace capacties today if they were still standing.
The Arsenal end looked dangerously overcrowded and the cameras panned onto fans at the front crushed into the perimeter fencing. Their faces were distorted eerily like those at Hillsborough two years later.
It's quite amazing that the authorities found this crushing so acceptable for so many years
Even without Hillsborough I'm sure that current health and safety laws would have vastly reduced many terrace capacties today if they were still standing.
Reppz - February 21, 2008 11:42 AM (GMT)
Wasn't there one recently involving two lower league sides...? i 'll try and find it.
Reppz - February 21, 2008 11:46 AM (GMT)
Exeter 1999 Close Shave
It should have been their proudest day for seven years. Instead, Aldershot Town supporters who attended Saturday's FA Cup second round tie at Exeter have been left with bitter and frightening memories. Bitterness at being treated like second-class fans and alarm that they were only moments away from a tragedy of Hillsborough proportions at the start of the game.
As the exit gates on the away terrace bulged under the pressure of bodies and briefly gave way, men feared for their lives, while women and children were passed forward to avoid the crush. Elderly supporters wept in fright and shock as they realised how close they had come to serious injury, even death.
When the smoke from flares had dissipated into the Devon air and their side had lost what, by the, had become a meaningless game, they found the finger of guilt pointing their way. 'I believe we were a whisker away from a disaster,' said Barry Underwood, president of the Aldershot Supporters Club, who took his 11-year-old son Matthew onto the terrace. He was the club's safety representative during their Football League days.
'I was on one of the supporters club coaches which arrived outside St James' Park at 2.15pm. We joined the queue which was already about 70 yards long and four deep. There were people 10 or 20 yards further in who were pointing to stewards and waving their arms to indicate the place was full up and they shouldn't let any more fans in. At about 10 to three, the stewards saw sense and shut the turnstiles, but there was a lot of concern among the fans. When the teams ran out, people couldn't believe it because we assumed the kick-off would be delayed. Our worst fears were confirmed when the whistle went for the kick-off. That's when people outside panicked about having not gained entry. I could see from my position that the exit gate was being pushed from the outside and was buckling in. There was one person, maybe a steward, trying to hold them. The gates gave and about a dozen people burst through them. I thought it was curtains. I knew that there was a substantial queue of people still outside and if they had followed we would have been flattened. Thankfully the others didn't follow them in. The old people and children were terrified because they were being pushed. If someone had fallen they would have been trampled. Our reaction was to shout to the kids "Get on the pitch." I was concerned for my son and managed to get him onto the pitchside. Then somebody released a flare. It was obviously a stupid thing to do. It landed in the face of someone standing next to me and fell to the floor. It caused a lot of smoke which caused a lot more panic and confusion.
Once my son was on the pitch, I quickly got out and went with him. The terrace was packed. Once we got onto the pitch perimeter, we walked to the terracing at the far end, but my son didn't want to go in there. He was in tears. He'd had enough and said: "I'm not going in there." So we stood next to the seats at the end. The match was secondary by then. The first half passed in a blur. We knew in out hearts that football wasn't the main factor in the day. We had come very close to something very nasty. How were we to know when those 12 people burst through the exit gates that there weren't several hundred trying to follow them?' The supporters who spilled onto the pitchside pleaded with referee Clive Wilkes and Aldershot players to halt the game. Wilkes eventually led the players off and suspended the game. Aldershot chairman Karl Prentice had been able to see the situation developing from his seat in the grandstand and alerted home directors. Prentice said: 'The Exeter chairman said kick-off couldn't be delayed but agreed to take me down to the referee's room. The referee said he had received no report from the police or the safety officer, so he would start on time. We had told the Exter people on several occasions that we would be bringing a minimum of 1,500, so why were our supporters, who had arrived early, still queuing at 3 o'clock?'
The police reported no arrests in the ground and only three in Exeter city centre before the game.
The police say the queues outside the ground were behaved and arrived early - a different view from that of Exeter secretary Stuart Brailey, who blamed away fans for the chaos.
'A lot of Aldershot fans turned up in the last 15 minutes having been kicked out of pubs in the town. As soon as he blew the whistle, people outside decided they wanted to climb over the fences so they didn't miss anything. It was the influx of the last-minute fans that created a bottleneck behind the turnstiles and caused the problem. There was plenty of room for Aldershot supporters. The whole thing was blown out of proportion.'
If Brailey's words cause anger in Aldershot, think about the anxiety of Everton supporters - the next visitors to Exeter in the FA Cup. The football fans of Merseyside know all about tragedy.
It should have been their proudest day for seven years. Instead, Aldershot Town supporters who attended Saturday's FA Cup second round tie at Exeter have been left with bitter and frightening memories. Bitterness at being treated like second-class fans and alarm that they were only moments away from a tragedy of Hillsborough proportions at the start of the game.
As the exit gates on the away terrace bulged under the pressure of bodies and briefly gave way, men feared for their lives, while women and children were passed forward to avoid the crush. Elderly supporters wept in fright and shock as they realised how close they had come to serious injury, even death.
When the smoke from flares had dissipated into the Devon air and their side had lost what, by the, had become a meaningless game, they found the finger of guilt pointing their way. 'I believe we were a whisker away from a disaster,' said Barry Underwood, president of the Aldershot Supporters Club, who took his 11-year-old son Matthew onto the terrace. He was the club's safety representative during their Football League days.
'I was on one of the supporters club coaches which arrived outside St James' Park at 2.15pm. We joined the queue which was already about 70 yards long and four deep. There were people 10 or 20 yards further in who were pointing to stewards and waving their arms to indicate the place was full up and they shouldn't let any more fans in. At about 10 to three, the stewards saw sense and shut the turnstiles, but there was a lot of concern among the fans. When the teams ran out, people couldn't believe it because we assumed the kick-off would be delayed. Our worst fears were confirmed when the whistle went for the kick-off. That's when people outside panicked about having not gained entry. I could see from my position that the exit gate was being pushed from the outside and was buckling in. There was one person, maybe a steward, trying to hold them. The gates gave and about a dozen people burst through them. I thought it was curtains. I knew that there was a substantial queue of people still outside and if they had followed we would have been flattened. Thankfully the others didn't follow them in. The old people and children were terrified because they were being pushed. If someone had fallen they would have been trampled. Our reaction was to shout to the kids "Get on the pitch." I was concerned for my son and managed to get him onto the pitchside. Then somebody released a flare. It was obviously a stupid thing to do. It landed in the face of someone standing next to me and fell to the floor. It caused a lot of smoke which caused a lot more panic and confusion.
Once my son was on the pitch, I quickly got out and went with him. The terrace was packed. Once we got onto the pitch perimeter, we walked to the terracing at the far end, but my son didn't want to go in there. He was in tears. He'd had enough and said: "I'm not going in there." So we stood next to the seats at the end. The match was secondary by then. The first half passed in a blur. We knew in out hearts that football wasn't the main factor in the day. We had come very close to something very nasty. How were we to know when those 12 people burst through the exit gates that there weren't several hundred trying to follow them?' The supporters who spilled onto the pitchside pleaded with referee Clive Wilkes and Aldershot players to halt the game. Wilkes eventually led the players off and suspended the game. Aldershot chairman Karl Prentice had been able to see the situation developing from his seat in the grandstand and alerted home directors. Prentice said: 'The Exeter chairman said kick-off couldn't be delayed but agreed to take me down to the referee's room. The referee said he had received no report from the police or the safety officer, so he would start on time. We had told the Exter people on several occasions that we would be bringing a minimum of 1,500, so why were our supporters, who had arrived early, still queuing at 3 o'clock?'
The police reported no arrests in the ground and only three in Exeter city centre before the game.
The police say the queues outside the ground were behaved and arrived early - a different view from that of Exeter secretary Stuart Brailey, who blamed away fans for the chaos.
'A lot of Aldershot fans turned up in the last 15 minutes having been kicked out of pubs in the town. As soon as he blew the whistle, people outside decided they wanted to climb over the fences so they didn't miss anything. It was the influx of the last-minute fans that created a bottleneck behind the turnstiles and caused the problem. There was plenty of room for Aldershot supporters. The whole thing was blown out of proportion.'
If Brailey's words cause anger in Aldershot, think about the anxiety of Everton supporters - the next visitors to Exeter in the FA Cup. The football fans of Merseyside know all about tragedy.
ATFC Martin - February 21, 2008 12:41 PM (GMT)
That's right Reppz. It was disgusting the way we were treated that day.
Our club told their officials to expect a LARGE number of fans but they never listened.
I was around 8 years old at the time. I was just to the left of the goal on the opposite side to where the gate was. It was pretty scary and I don't think it was blown out of proportion like their Secretary says. It was packed. Everyone shoulder to shoulder, two people to each step (one in front of the other).
Our club told their officials to expect a LARGE number of fans but they never listened.
I was around 8 years old at the time. I was just to the left of the goal on the opposite side to where the gate was. It was pretty scary and I don't think it was blown out of proportion like their Secretary says. It was packed. Everyone shoulder to shoulder, two people to each step (one in front of the other).
Peter SUSD - February 21, 2008 01:41 PM (GMT)
QPR v West Ham FA Cup - year or so before Hillsboro.
All ticket game but QPR also allowed West Ham fans to pay at gate. Packed in lower tier terrace with clearly many more fans than capacity. Fortunately no fences so many fans climbed out onto pitch. Game delayed an hour while police moved them to other areas of ground. Police horses on the plastic pitch and a man had to clear up the resulting mess afterwards to chants of 'what's its like to shovel tench!).
QPR blamed forged tickets but presented no evidence & it seemed much more likely that it was because extra fans were allowed to pay at gate.
If there had been fences I'm sure people would have been injured or killed - especially in the narrow corridoor that you had to walk through to get onto the terrace - people could have died there, out of site & with no one able to do anything.
Of course there was no enquiry & no action taken that could have prevented Hillsboro.
All ticket game but QPR also allowed West Ham fans to pay at gate. Packed in lower tier terrace with clearly many more fans than capacity. Fortunately no fences so many fans climbed out onto pitch. Game delayed an hour while police moved them to other areas of ground. Police horses on the plastic pitch and a man had to clear up the resulting mess afterwards to chants of 'what's its like to shovel tench!).
QPR blamed forged tickets but presented no evidence & it seemed much more likely that it was because extra fans were allowed to pay at gate.
If there had been fences I'm sure people would have been injured or killed - especially in the narrow corridoor that you had to walk through to get onto the terrace - people could have died there, out of site & with no one able to do anything.
Of course there was no enquiry & no action taken that could have prevented Hillsboro.
purpleronnie - February 21, 2008 01:44 PM (GMT)
Depends on how far you go back, I think fans were killed at bolton after the terrace which were packed put to much strain on crush barriers.
chalky - February 21, 2008 02:21 PM (GMT)
One of the campaign groups, is it fans for justice or something like that have got their own website I think going into great detail every aspect of that day. One of the sections is a timeline of all similar crushes from all over the world. Just had a brief look through google but couldn't find it.
Reppz - February 21, 2008 04:33 PM (GMT)
Yeah chalky thats where i got the info about the close shave with Aldershot.
think its contrast.org/hillsborough
think its contrast.org/hillsborough
hibs1875 - February 21, 2008 07:14 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (chalky @ Feb 21 2008, 02:21 PM) |
| One of the campaign groups, is it fans for justice or something like that have got their own website I think going into great detail every aspect of that day. One of the sections is a timeline of all similar crushes from all over the world. Just had a brief look through google but couldn't find it. |
http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/worldwide.shtm
The chronology on that site is an interesting read.
ATFC Martin - February 23, 2008 12:05 AM (GMT)
The flare that is spoken about on that Exeter - Aldershot one.
nick the jack - February 23, 2008 12:22 PM (GMT)
I'm reading a book at the moment written in 1983 about football grounds. The capacities seem huge because of terracing, things like 20k at Stockport, but as crowds were down in the 80's I imagine not much attention was given to what would occur if the place sold out. The author talks a lot about terraces being fenced off because clubs couldn't afford, or didn't need to open them.
There were a lot of Acts before Hills,boro to do with safety, such as the 1975 Act, but with the advantage of hynsite it seems like Taylor's one is the only one which has given a huge leep in the pursuit of safety, so he must be applauded for that. Apart from one little rule :rolleyes:
A terrace collapsed at Ibrox around 1930
Overcrowding caused deaths at Bolton in 1946
Bradford Fire in 1985 (but that happened in a seated area)
Heysel 1985
The book is a very interesting read its called 'The football grounds of England and Wales' by Simon inglis. I bought mine in Oxfam, they've got some cracking bargains in there you know. It is interesting to read the perspective of a football fan from 1983 - crowds falling from the post war peak, terraces een a special part of football and so on, an interesting read
There were a lot of Acts before Hills,boro to do with safety, such as the 1975 Act, but with the advantage of hynsite it seems like Taylor's one is the only one which has given a huge leep in the pursuit of safety, so he must be applauded for that. Apart from one little rule :rolleyes:
A terrace collapsed at Ibrox around 1930
Overcrowding caused deaths at Bolton in 1946
Bradford Fire in 1985 (but that happened in a seated area)
Heysel 1985
The book is a very interesting read its called 'The football grounds of England and Wales' by Simon inglis. I bought mine in Oxfam, they've got some cracking bargains in there you know. It is interesting to read the perspective of a football fan from 1983 - crowds falling from the post war peak, terraces een a special part of football and so on, an interesting read
4 Inarow - February 29, 2008 01:57 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (hibs1875 @ Feb 21 2008, 07:14 PM) | ||
http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/history/worldwide.shtm The chronology on that site is an interesting read. |
I love their interpretation of the heysel disaster. Typical.
Lord flange - March 1, 2008 10:39 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (nick the jack @ Feb 23 2008, 12:22 PM) |
| I'm reading a book at the moment written in 1983 about football grounds. The capacities seem huge because of terracing, things like 20k at Stockport, but as crowds were down in the 80's I imagine not much attention was given to what would occur if the place sold out. The author talks a lot about terraces being fenced off because clubs couldn't afford, or didn't need to open them. There were a lot of Acts before Hills,boro to do with safety, such as the 1975 Act, but with the advantage of hynsite it seems like Taylor's one is the only one which has given a huge leep in the pursuit of safety, so he must be applauded for that. Apart from one little rule :rolleyes: A terrace collapsed at Ibrox around 1930 Overcrowding caused deaths at Bolton in 1946 Bradford Fire in 1985 (but that happened in a seated area) Heysel 1985 The book is a very interesting read its called 'The football grounds of England and Wales' by Simon inglis. I bought mine in Oxfam, they've got some cracking bargains in there you know. It is interesting to read the perspective of a football fan from 1983 - crowds falling from the post war peak, terraces een a special part of football and so on, an interesting read |
Inglis is the guru of everything that is 'football grounds'.
In his last book 'Engineering Archie' - which is also a fantastic read with loads of evocative photos - he signs off with a statement that reads something along the lines of .......
"just when the authorities had worked out how to best manage the terraces they were abolished"
I made a point of trying to find his details about a year back to see if he would lend support to the campaign but couldnt find an email or address.
Again if anyone can find his details I would be happy to write to him.
Inglis is a very influential and respected author on football stadiums and it would be great to have him on side.