Please use this thread to post about your experiences at matches whether home or away, how the stewards treat you, how much standing there is and how it is managed.

Your thoughts and observations on the whole "Match Day Experience" are welcome here.

Went to Barnet v Torquay today. Great result for ‘Brazil from the West Country’. Torquay’s 500+ away support were given half the terrace on the side (area that used to be home fans), but no seats.

Whilst my son & I, and many others, were very pleased to stand, it was very hot, and I’m sure some older people and those with young children would have preferred to sit, especially as the South Stand that used to be for visiting fans was almost empty.

I think it is only reasonable for clubs to provide a choice of sitting & standing areas for away fans, and it goes against many of the all seater arguments to deny away fans a chance to have a choice to sit.

From a Torquay forum:

'Shame on tin pot money grabbing Barnet for: (a) charging OUR KIDS FULL ADMISSION PRICE TO GO IN AND (B) FAILING TO PROVIDE ANY SEATS FOR our support at all.

Yes, you could go and queue for a whole £4 concession for kids and oldies but that meant joining a huge throng of home fans in a different part of the ground who were queuing to collect their season tickets, and as I said ELEVEN POUNDS for concessions!

They also charged £1 for a small bottle of water which was almost essential given the conditions and have the cheek to put up a pitchside advert informing us that we are being surcharged a pound a head to "pay the council" or some such rubbish.

The Yellow Army had the last laugh though as the safety commitee have forced Tin Pot Barnet into giving over the home "Kop" to the away fans and the free seats they took off us to give away only attracted about a hundred folk.'

I'll look into this as if it was a safety decision to allocate the terrace to away fans (maybe because the away end was temporary seats & away fans tend to stand), it harldy fits with the customer care, attracting families, women & kids can't stand etc arguments that we are given to oppose standing.

By the way, Torquay's support was 702, not bad for holiday time and 500 mile round trip for most.

Another post from Torquay forum:
I shall be wriitng to Barnet tonight.

'Barnet have now been allowed in the League TWICE with that sloping pitch and substandard "stadium" and it's just not on.

The pitch is of minor consequence when compared with the spectator accomodation however because in actual fact if you take the slope out of the equation, the surface is excellent and is maintained by Arsenal who use it for their reserve games which attract gates of twice the size as Barnet at around half the price!

But that slope...........when they were a proper football club under the dodgy and intimidatory chairmanship of Stan Flashman and managed by Barry Fry they had a throbbing heart, big raucous following and I and a few other CG's used to love going along to occasional games there. The slope was all part of it, but the Football League (who at the time -if indeed they do now - had no such written constitution saying that pitches cannot slope) insisted that they decrease the gradient and so amazingly the pitch was not levelled at all but cosmetically levelled off at both penalty areas leaving the midfield exactly as before. Indeed if you ever get the chance to walk (or play!) on it you'll notice too that it also slopes from corner to corner. But then, it's a little known fact that Newcastle have an almost similar but more consistent end to end slope, as did Oxford at the Manor, Rotherham and even Arsenal at the old Highbury as well as Leyton Orient; and just wait until we go to Accrington Stanley!

But yesterday, last season, and the infamous events of our relegation High Noon there when we sent them down; do underline the appalling inadequacies of Undertaker's Hill.......only last week, when being granted their safety licence they were informed that the away fans had to be stood exactly where we where yesterday because of concerns over travelling fans being in that back alley behind the stand and so in a move akin to us having the Popside taken away from us, the dwindling band of Barnet fans now find themselves excluded from their favourite covered "Kop". The club are STILL 1,000 covered seats short of the minimum requirement for a Football League club and no attempt has been made to rectify that situation. Yesterday there were NO seats made available to OUR fans forcing the elderly and the very young, and less healthy to stand in extreme heat. Concessions were only on offer to OUR fans if they took an extra journey from the turnstile around to the ticket office well away to join a queue of home fans waiting to collect their season tickets and for a miserly concession of just £4 they would get a voucher which they then had to take back to the turnstile........of course no-one bothered and so young kids and the elderly ended up paying full price (as Barnet knew full well they would - and what a miserly concession!).

Remember too the experience of the "Barnet One" who got ejected and arrested for contravening section fifteen of the public order (sports grounds) act, namely refusing to remain seated in a designated seating area last season. He had offered to go and stand in the designated standing area but was refused and when he appeared in court his not guilty plea was upheld with costs against the police and Barnet FC.

The fact is Barnet, who only last week announced plans to build a Ryman League standard stadium at nearby Canons Park to be rented out to Wealdstone FC and is in fact their training base; have consistently failed to come up to standard after all these years and therefore have no rightful place in the Football League and could well end up playing in their "Ryman League" stadium at exactly that level of football if they're not careful! '

Doesn't Lou Elliston cover Barnet?

Yes.
I shall copy her with my letter.

Coventry v Sunderland: Observations from televised game. Ground appeared around 2/3 full. A handful of Coventry fans were in the Sunderland end. Team came out of the tunnel to tannoyed music and there were American style cheerleaders on the pitch cheering the players. No crowd shots apart from goal celebrations, loud music accompanied the two Coventry goals; no standing seen on lower tiers around the pitch; the atmosphere fluctuated but seemed loud enough in parts but you'd of expected a livlier atmosphere for the first game of the season for both teams. The music blasted out at the final whistle and you could clearly see the home fans jumping and clapping in time to the music.

Was in the away section at Leeds yesterday. I was continually up and down during the first half but probably not stood for more than 10 minutes at a time. Second half I was sat down a bit more. There was still plenty of standing, but mainly for short periods. A couple of Norwich supporters were threatened with ejection for persistant standing but stayed in the ground.

The Leeds fans at the other end seemed to be stood throughout the match. Especially the upper section of the Revie Stand which appeared to be stood throughout the entire match without much resistance from the stewards.

I caught some of the Derby v Southampton game earlier today and it appeared Saints fans were standing persistantly in the back rows with others sitting towards the front. Hard to tell from television but appeared to be good attendence although areas of empty seats. More stewards there (sitting in empty seats doing nothing) than there appeared to be at earlier Coventry game.

hi i went to leicester v luton yesterday. In the away end around 150 of the vocal leicester fans gathered to the left of the away stand (as you look at it from the pitch) and stood throughout with no attempts to get fans seated. Around the same number of Luton fans stood to the right with again no attempts to get anyone seated leading to some friendly banter and an enjoyable day. Contrast this to leicester v luton last year when around 15 from both mainly leicester were ejected for standing leading to slight disorder and anti steward chanting etc.

well done luton fc.


i will report on here after every leicester game this season as to who stood etc is that ok? in this thread yeah :D

Leicester, thanks to this and to Norwich. Yes, please do report after every game, this is exactly what we need to build up picture of inconsistancy.

Hi, I was at the Coventry game yesterday – the situation was similar to most of last season, in that the top 15 or so rows of block 16 (in the corner, the last block before the segregation and away section) stood throughout. This is consistently where the best atmosphere is found at the Ricoh, but also it has to be said has an unfortunately high “chav” contingent (who have an annoying habit of heading down en masse to get booze at least 5 minutes before half time). Elsewhere a few stand but only in the back row (or 2 rows), this was also the case in the Sunderland end where probably only 20 or so out of 3000 were standing throughout.

Interestingly, no attempt was made to get anyone to sit, in contrast to last season when there were frequent confrontations with stewards, and quite a few were ejected and banned from this area of the ground (but they never really succeeded in stopping the standing). Obviously I hope that this informal acceptance continues, but I wouldn’t be overly confident of that!

Atmosphere was alright, I am not a fan of new stadiums and still preferred Highfield Road (though not many would agree I suspect) - particularly annoying yesterday was 5 mins before kick off as both sets of fans were starting to make some noise, they massively upped the volume of the crap music and totally drowned out the fans... I may contact the club to have a moan about this.

I am currently in Utah this summer, and have been watching a fair few Real Salt Lake games. The law with standing over here is that you are allowed to stand, as long as you are not in anyones way. At Real Salt Lake, there are two areas of the ground where fans stand, the stewards know this, and help to move anyone who has a ticket behind them but doesn't want to stand.

I wasn't at the Rotherham v Brighton game obviously, but from what I can gather from Brighton messageboards, around half of our fans their (250ish) stood throughout with no efforts made to get them to sit.

To echo what Kukev said, Major League Soccer seems to be going through something of a fan culture growth spurt at the moment, and the scene is developing with a real diverse make up of football cultures that reflects US society. Most clubs have fans that stand in large numbers, particularly at Chivas USA, Chicago Fire and DC United. Type Chicago Fire into youtube.com for some fan scenes that really put our fans to shame!

For Wycombes home game against Wrexham out of 500 of the away fans approx 100 stood for the whole game in the last 3 to 4 rows of the stand. No efforts to get them to sit - good atmosphere was the result.

leicester played their first home game v burnley last night at the walkers stadium.

our standing section was well enhanced with around 325- 350 fans standing throughout the match next to the burnley fans. At the other end of the ground around 20 fans stood in the last 4 rows of one block and around 15 burnley fans stood persistantly but many were jumping around for long periods due to their victory.

around 400 fans standing then at the walkers stadium with no attempts anywhere of note to get anyone to sit.


P.S- i dont know if this is consistent with other clubs but at leicester there is never real trouble in the ground and never any trouble when there is just 20 odd stewards in between the 2 sets of supporters. the disorder and tension only comes for our big games such as derby, wolves, cardiff where there is a heavy police presence segregating the fans and they often pull out and eject fans seemingly at random for standing etc.


no police- no trouble and so far lcfc have it spot on with stewarding. ;)

I'm aware that Leicester are probaby unique in that they called a meeting with fans, safety officials etc to try and resolve the constant conflict that arose last season between stewards and fans who wanted to stand. Good on 'em!

LIVERPOOL - MACCABI HAIFA, before kick off (delayed due to crowd congestion outside ground) customery shots of huge Liverpool flag being passed over the heads of crowds (glad fans can remain standing safely while doing this) and their anthem being sung while crowds standing with their scarves aloft. The Haifa fans also shown in good voice with plenty jumping around while waving their own scarves around.

I'm fairly certain that any crowd shots of the Kop will show the majority standing.

How soon before such flags are banned?
Restricted vision & light, disorientation in event of fire etc etc.
And I assume people stand to pass them over heads. Cascade effect etc etc.

Was at PNE at home last night. With it being the first home match of the season, and an evening match, the atmosphere was very good at the start, with plenty of noise and people standing for the first 15 minutes. The numbers decreased at times through the half with the stewards playing there usual role but no problems.

Sadly the second half wasn't so good. One of the coppers at the back of our steps decided to stare at a group of supporters for the entirety of the second half. This obviously caused aggitation amongst supporters, some of whom made their thoughts perfectly clear. The only thing that stopped things going further was other supporters calming them down. No one was ejected but one lad was taken under the stand and warned for gesturing at away fans. However, whilst he was under the stand, the other copper on our steps said he didn't know what his mate was doing or why he was acting like an idiot. It is exactly this kind of attitude from coppers or stewards that is going to cause problems and nothing to do with the issues they are supposed to be 'policing'.

13.8.06 - Crystal Palace + Leeds: The televised game showed Palace fans behind one goal standing for long durations, if not the entire game.

Liverpool v Chelsea, Community Cup: the televised games showed fans from both teams standing behind each goal and it appeared they were standing for long durations and not just when their teams were attacking.

At the end of the game, around 8 small children were shown clearly standing on seats while an adult in the middle held them with his arms. They were in the front row and perhaps would not have had to stand at all if it weren't for the fact the there were stewards standing nearly shoulder to shoulder in front of them.

Was at Norwich v Luton yesterday at Carrow Road. No problems at all re. standing, just a small issue when the stewards asked us to take down a flag that was covering an advertising board. Luton brought about 1500 fans who were up and down throughout the game and making a fair bit of noise. Similar numbers standing for Norwich again throughout the game (about 400) though this rose to about 1500 for the last 30 minutes as we came from 2-0 down to win 3-2. Yet again it seems absurb that the FLA won't let us stand during normal play but by there own admission the crazy scenes on the terraces which followed our 3rd goal are perfectly legitimate.

We entertained Feyenoord yesterday at The Plastic-ejski.

They brought over about 700 fans, all except the front 3 rows were stood from kick off until we scored 2 goals in quick succession. They out-sang us too, did Tom Hark when we scored etc and generally got behind their team.

Section of fans towards the top of our stand (no more than 25-30 people) stood for first 5 minutes before TVP got camera out to record footage of them and stewards went around passing around empty threats; sadly they worked.

Contrast this to the Feyenoord fans, sung all game and stood for first half hour and last 35 mins or so non stop. Whenever TVP paid any attention to them, they just got louder, and louder, and louder.

There was a time for a few minutes where the sang some Dutch song- think it's their club anthem- whilst all simultaneously bouncing up and down, hands in pockets. If possible, I'll try and find a video of them doing it on another occassion on youtube etc...it was a pretty good sight too; sadly not to be seen in English football.

All in all, Feyenoord fans stood and were really good - good English too. Reading fans sat and all we could come up with were the last 5 lines of the national anthem, "Ajax are shit, Feyenoord are worse" and other equally as gimpton like chants. Probably says more about our (Reading FC) fan culture than standing's affect on atmosphere though to be honest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Right, whilst not the particular chant I mentioned that involved West Brom style "Boing Boing"ing, this gives an idea of how vocal their support is here

And this is how good their English is!!

why is it that when you watch football on tv the crowd shots are always of people (usually kids) standing? :rolleyes: do they approve of standing?

On the Feyenoord thing, I guess this is quite usual for big clubs in Europe - I went to a PSG home game about a year ago and both ends of the ground (large stands with seats) were standing, bouncing, doing the conga etc etc and the noise level was unbelievable for the whole game, British stadiums just don't come close. To think they might be asked to sit down would be laughable...

Went to Cardiff-WBA on Tuesday (home end) and Cardiff-Coventry on Saturday (away end), both games had a very good atmosphere. Of course Ninian Park is a throwback to the seventies and to me is a much more enjoyable place to watch football (which is why I sometimes go as a "netral" living here). It is also a good indicator of fans preferences, needless to say no visiting team ever has more fans in the seats than the terrace, I'd say at a guess about 80% choose the terrace on average.

Strangely, there are still fairly large sections who stand throughout in the seated areas, in the grandstand lower tier by the away fans and at the back of the bob bank seating (opposite stand), this despite two large terraces being available - it does however seem to help get a decent atmosphere going on 3 sides of the ground which is rare these days!

I fail to see why that's strange? It conclusively shows the Cardiff supporters want to stand and that demand far outweighs the supply.

Thanks for the Feyenoord links - behaviour that would have stadiums in this country closed down, no doubt!

Jamie, I think the point by tbh444 was that it was strange that fans stand in seated areas while terraces are available?

No reply from Barnet yet, but I copied it to FLA inspector Lou Elliston & she replied immediately saying:

Dear Mr Caton

I agree with you. I haven't been to Barnet in the last few weeks and due to holidays I missed the last meeting and was unaware of the current arrangements. The position at Barnet was that during last season I found there were problems with the toilet block at the South end. They were blocking and there was an inadequate water supply. This was difficult to rectify at the time and to provide away supporters with adequate facilities they were moved to the top end of the East terrace. During the closed season work has been undertaken which included repairing the drains and providing an additional water supply so all the ground should be available again. Your letter makes a very reasonable point about the conditions at the time and I certainly shall enquire why they couldn't have shown more flexibility and whether away supporters can be given the choice of terracing or seated accommodation for future games.
For your information I was at Ipswich last week and viewed the new facility they have created for away supporters by converting the old club chop. This has provided additional refreshment and toilet facilities at ground level, but which can be accessed from either vomitory on the upper level and the side staircase. So should you visit Ipswich during the course of the season I am sure you will find it a much more comfortable experience.
Regards
Lou Elliston

This was my letter:

Dear Sirs

I am writing to complain that Torquay supporters were allocated no seating accommodation at yesterday’s fixture.

Whilst I, and probably the majority of the 700 visiting supporters preferred to stand, there were some supporters who wished to sit and were unhappy that Torquay had been allocated only terrace accommodation.

It was very hot in the covered terrace, and I noticed that your first aid staff were called upon several times to assist supporters, at least twice bringing chairs for them to sit on.

Whilst some supporters simply prefer to sit, for others standing is very difficult, particularly some older supporters and those with young children. I do not therefore consider it acceptable to provide only standing accommodation for visiting supporters.

Last season Torquay were allocated only the all seated South Stand, and there were problems of conflict between supporters wishing to stand and stewards trying to get them to sit. In previous years Torquay have been given both standing and seated areas, and there have been no problems.

I understand that Barnet have moved the away area on safety grounds. I am not aware of the reasons for this, but in doing so you have created additional problems for away supporters.

Most supporters believe that there should be a choice as to whether they can sit or stand to watch football. By denying this choice to away supporters Barnet are making it difficult for some families and older supporters. This is a customer care issue (with possible safety implications) and a major reason why we are told that supporters should not stand in seated areas.

I would have thought that Barnet would want to encourage all supporters to attend matches, but by providing only terracing for visitors you are making it difficult for some supporters to follow their team. I took my twelve year old son with me yesterday and considered taking my six year old too. I am very glad that I didn’t, as he would have found it both difficult to see and to stand in such heat for two hours.


I appreciate that Underhill has limited facilities, but given that Barnet rarely fill their ground (the South Stand was almost empty yesterday, despite tickets being given away for free), I do not think it unreasonable that you provide a choice of standing and seated accommodation for visiting supporters. The practice of allocating the end section of terracing and the South Stand seats to Torquay fans appeared to work well every time it was used, and I would ask that Barnet reconsider whether this would be more appropriate than the current terrace only arrangement.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely


Peter Caton

cc.

Lou Elliston Football Licensing Authority (Inspector for Barnet FC)
Mike Bateson Chairman Torquay United
Malcolm Clarke Chairman Football Supporters Federation

I don't know how populated the designated terraces were but if they were anything like my previous visits to Ninian Park; they'd be jam-packed...of course I'm only assuming here though as this would suggest that demand outweighs the supply.

Terraces are never really full at Ninian Park. Crowds have been down for a few years, although the standing areas are always well populated. Whats interesting is that fans stood in seats at Ninian when it was all-seater, and then when the Grange end, and Bob Bank lower terraces were reopened (after about 7 years of being closed) the terraces filled up yet fans still stood in the seats where they always had.

I have to admit, that if in the ideal scanerio where terraces/approved standing areas did exist, we'd have to be less tolerant of people standing in front of their seats then.

England v Greece: The Greeks were shown jumping up and down twirling their scarves round their heads and the standing from the England fans appeared intermittent and perhaps more in the first half.

As Cardiff are now in their 4th year of playing in the Championship I thought it was the mickey mouse law that they had to have an all seater stadium by now or did they get round it by planning a new ground in 2 years. If the Grange End is now all seater Im sure many more stand than sit.

Chaps, can we move the Cardiff debate off this thread please? Would like to keep this just for supporter feedback from games they attend.

Consider yourselves well and truly told off :P

I went to the Borussia Dortmund v Tottenham friendly on 5th August. We drew 1-1 in a pretty sound pre-season campaign. We stood throughout in an away end designed for standing. It was excellent, and the atmosphere in the stadium was awesome. Our support was well over a thousand at this away friendly. We could also drink beer throughout the match too! :D And we did! No trouble, no accidents or anything in the ground. A bit of hassle later, afterwards, but nothing to do with the standing issue, or us (Spurs), or the ordinary Dortmund support, for that matter!

Lynn.

Sheffield v Liverpool. (tv) Only saw the first half but it seemed like all Sheffield fans behind one goal were standing.

West Ham v Charlton (attended) Around 1/4 of the BML stood for the entire game, mostly in the corners and at the back. Some persistant standing during the first half. 2/3 of the Centenury Lower stood for the entire game. At one point 4 bouncer style security men when in, presumably to try and get the fans to sit but were greeted with cries of "stand up if you love West Ham", even those who were seated all stood up and thereafter it appeared that there were no further attempts to get those standing to sit. Charlton fans sat for the duration of the game, apart from "moments of high excitement". A half hearted cry of "stand up if you love Charlton was heard in the first half but there didn't seem to be many takers.

We sit centre of BML, half way back. Stood for 10 minutes with excellent atmosphere, then stewards asked people to sit & most did. However we got up every time West Ham attacked so about 20 times in 1st half.
A bit of debate with bloke behind who said he also wanted to stand but was concerned about those behind him. My view is that they know BML tends to stand so there are plenty of other parts of the ground they can use if they want to sit.
As usual east side block of BML stood and no attempts made to get them to sit.

Bolton v Spurs

Spurs support in the lower tier were sat for most of the game, very strange for spurs IMO although the stewards in that section do have a reputation for heavy handedness.

Amanda in regard to the sheff united v liverpool game it seemed from television that all of the liverpool fans stood throughout and around 225 sheff u fans stood in the back 5 rows of so of the kop end. At no point however did the whole of their kop end stand as much as id like to see this many fans standing. They were all on their feet at "moments of exitement" however it would appear.

I was at coventry v leicester on friday night. Around 350 ish coventry fans stood to the right of the leicester fans. Around 75 leicester fans were stood at the start of the match however stewards and police came up all staircases and made sure all fans sat down leading to confrontations. Most sat as police and stewards maintained their positions in the staircases in an intimidating manner.
In the coventry end it seemed a nightmare, fans were constantly being dragged out for what appeared little more than standing. Police and stewards forced their way into the centre of their standing block and ejected people. This lead to confrontations and one or two scuffles, much to the amusement of leicester fans singing "cherio, and fock off" etc. this didnt help the situation and i was left thinking it must have been better if they didnt drag out these 7 odd people for standing therefore avoided these confrontational scuffles.

Leicester and Coventry fans wishing to stand had police and stewards watching them from about 2 yards and riot squads from the exits below.
This left many supporters feeling intimidated and even though this is a local derby is this heavy handedness really necessary.

A policeman even disturbed 5 fans to ask me to sit down properly on my seat because i was sitting on it whilst it was upright, not on the main flat bit even though everyone behind could see properly.


Outside the ground getting away was a nightmare. Leicester fans were faced with a ring of police around them and dogs going crazy attempting to bite any fan that comes near the coventry fans. We also saw around 100 riot police with shields present to segregate the fans outside. Now although there may have been hooligans or fans wishing to fight present are dogs,police with shields and police costs running into thousands necessary for this fixture with 20,000 fans present.

a little over the top me thinks.

hope this is of interest to you please say if it is/isnt.

Leicester, this is exactly what we need and thanks for posting it. Please let us know what happens at future games.

When at Cardiff for the FA Cup final we spoke to a couple of officers and commented on their low key approach and how well supporters seemed to respond to it. They were pleased that we'd taken the trouble to speak to them and told us it was their stance to take a softly,softly approach. as they understood that fans responded better to that than the whole riot gear approach. I suggested they told their colleagues in the Met; they just laughed and said "oh, they wouldn't listen to us"!

Perhaps they should. I for one am sick of the high police presence at games. Today for example we had 4 mounted policemen, for WHU v Charlton... hardly a fixture with a history of trouble. I can't help but think the police are more interested in what they can charge clubs than sensible and proportionate policing.