For WW2 german armour fans, zimmerit is something one will encounter soon or later, as for me i try to avoid the subject simply bcos i couldnt come close to replicate them in 1/35scale, the last time i did it was probably 15 years ago, it turned out really awfull.
hence i avoided buying and building tanks where zimmerit is a must on them, tanks like the Panther Ausf A and Late production Tiger 1 is 2 example where one must put on zimmerit , no excuse for doing otherwise.
a few months back i bought a couple of Panther ausf A and tiger 1 late production , forgetting that these are the Haram items in my collections, so now im force to come face to face with zimmerit, as one cannot build these guys without it.
another Haram item for me is actually 1/35scale Tiger 1, i havent bought or build them for at least 20 years, the reason is they are the one everyone will build, they are so well documented it will be hard to get away from murder, you couldnt let the imagination run wild on a tiger 1, and to get them spot on will require alot of work.
well everything changes with the new Dragon Tigers...they are so good you could build them OOB , the details are correct well moulded, it save countless hours on rebuilding, scratch building.

No matter how well detailed a Tiger 1 late production kit is, it will not be complete without zimmerit, Dragon had come up with a zimmerit version, and this doesnt solve the problem simply bcos the zimmerit are too prefect on this version, it is spotless without a scratch as if it just came out from the factory. it will be hard going to create battle damage on the zimmerit or chipped off areas. for these particular reason i avoid buying this version....well maybe im just fussy .


so how does one create prefect zimmerit on 1/35scale? i did worked out a couple of methods, still testing abtually, but im sure many of the braders here had done zimmerit before, so lets share and pool our resources on this topic.
any suggestions on how we could improve....the malaysian way?

base on my last attempt at making zimmerit , you could purchase a zimmerit tool maker for 1/35 scale from AFV.
did the zimmerit using tamiya putty then applying it on the lower hull of my StugIII , results were mix..putty tends to stick to the zimmerit applicator , tool applicator must be dip in thinner after each run to prevent putty from sticking to the applicator.
thickness of putty applied to the hull must be consistent , you don't want one side to be too thick or too thin.

all the best Ari , i'm sure you can do it.

or last resort built a kit say late 1944 , that was the time all zimmerit coating were no longer applied on the tanks... ;)

always the last resort bos...but too bad the last tiger 1 that roll off the production line came with zimmerit, before production stops to focus on the king tiger, same story with the panther A, production discontinue in favour of the G model...the last A came with zimmerit. guess theres no escape ..hahaha.

well, just before the battle of berlin Tiger 1 went back into production, 6 were build..but they are made from spare hulls and turrets...the famous hybrid tigers of gruppe Fehrmann, well i thought i could avoid zimmerit building these Fehrman tigers ...but recent photos prove otherwise :(






the zimmerit stamp from AFV.....i saw it once . held it in my hands, was about to pay for it, then decided not. sort like i have a funny feeling about this product, the groves doesnt look right...well i will never know now.


actually i have solve the problem of sticky and uneven putty. i develop a method were the putty will very thin and spreads evenly even to the smallest part of the tank.
i use a two part putty...roll it thin ...the same way i made canvas covers, then apply the putty piece by piece. this way you will have a very even surface and the best is its not as messy as using tamiya putty, and you could take you time in working on it section by section.

here is some test i did on the above method. the way to avoid the stamps sticking to putty is to use some talcum powder. note the thin spead of the putty, and the borders which you could work on taking your own sweet time. the one thing that doesnt look right is the patten of the zimmerit, the scale is okay, just that it doesnt look right..well , i try to work on the stamps again and get a better patten.




heres another solution for those with money in their pocket.....

I bought the Tamiya zimmerit coating applicator and the tamiya epoxy putty. Will try my hand to make zimmerit on my very first tank model. The 1/35 Tamiya King Tiger. Hope it will turn out ok. Will post to share the experince here whether ok or not :)

Those days I use the Tamiya Zimmerit Tool, which actually need to be attached to the mini saw. It work quite well. You can use it without the minisaw, but be very careful, it's hard to get a firm grip while working you way with the putty. You need a firm grip of the Tamiya Applicator to get the zimmerit even. Sometimes you'll drag the entire putty off if you drag it to hard.

But nowadays, I've stop using tamiya's applicator and been using it as a saw blade :P. It serves better that way. Now I'm using AFV Club. Check it here:

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/revi...lub/ac35003.htm

yes bos, would really like to see how the Tamiya applicator works...but i have doubt about using the epoxy putty by tamiya...the problem of uneven application. and these zimmerit are applied very thin , must find ways to apply it thin and even. guess its better to try on scraps or an old tank kit. as from my experince if we get the zimmerit wrong the tank will look Funny and we will run out of steam to finish it...a waste actually considering how expensive model kits are nowdays

agree. Zimmerit is thin layer and the sample pic above with the horizontal zimmerit is wrong. That's y I don't use the flat tip screw driver method (was popular those days coz there was no other tools).

If using the Tamiya applicator, you should scrap the putty until you can see the tank body plastic (or almost can see.)

Check this article:

Zimmerit Article

bos...show us the result from AFV applicator, if it works for you then it has some good in it, and could save us alot of problems
i miss the chance to buy it, and the reason i didnt buy it simply bcos the groves doesnt look right, it does looks okay on the roller itself but what would the end result looks like.
im putting my money that they would be too thick...but we would never know unless we see some results, if its good then im all for it, if not then we must find ways how to improve on it.
btw...dont just believe what been said in reviews...those guys get paid to say such, better to relie on our own judgements, besides the man did mention he havent tried it on putty even thought the apllicator looks good.

from my observation these applicators does have its plus and minus, and in the hands of a experience modelers it could work, as applying zimmerit is not about having the right applicators but thru the combination of getting the right putty, the right method of applying the putty, the right method of stamping and a fair knowledge of how the real thing looks like.
we might have a very good applicator...but if we mess up the putty then its back to square one. thats why after market zimmerit like the Cavalier are selling good, as they knew it would be hard to reproduce the right zimmerit texture, its a good thing i invest some money buying some of their products...not to use them on my tanks but to get a clear picture on how those zimmerit looks like and try to duplicate them so i could mass produce..i will go broke if i were to buy one for each of my tanks.
so i guess thats why i started this thread...to find ways to overcome these problems :blink:

I'm not building any tanks with zimmerit at the moment, but I do have some tanks in my trash box with zimmerit still on it. I'll try to get a photo of it. Or many be I'll try get a step-by-step photo..... if i got the time. :ph43r:

Don't know if this is useful for you to decide or not but you can follow the linky for some pre/post prime / paint job using the AFV zimm tool. That was my first time trying zimm and the applicator tool.

http://malaysiascalemodelling.com/index.ph...id=22&Itemid=21

cheers

bos bear..im glad i finally get to see the AFV applicator result, sadly its not what im looking for, and it does comfirm my suspicious about this applicator and the money is spot on that its too big. i know im a fussy guy, but i have to be honest, the applicator doesnt produce the kind of zimmerit im looking for...mainly due to the wide vertical marks and the space between each bar





heres an example of Dragon's king tiger...the zimmerit looks too neat. as i mention before it will be diffcult to make any damage spot on this and again the ever present vertical marks between each stripe of bars..i dont know really but this doesnt look right to me....but at least here we have a clue on the scale of the zimmerit...they are stamp real close together...something which is quite different then what the AFC applicator produce




ok lets try again....another test on a new stamp i made. first to make the putty...its a 2 part putty roll into thin sheet



the putty sheet is then applied to the tank with some glue..i use tamiya extra thin glue.




the sheet is then trim off




this is the stamp i made




first test run, i stamp it the normal downwards method and later trim off the surplus putty



so what do we have here...., the bars are set close together. the minus side is the present of vertical stripe between each bars...this i must get rid off as it doesnt look good at all even though most kits that comes with zimmerit would look like this.



another test run...the next 4 bars are stamp overlapping to the next ...but this didnt got rid off the vertical stripes even thought its not as noticeable as the 1st 3 bars.
the last four bars are stamp overlapping and moving horizontally from left to right instead of downwards...and i guess i hit the jackpot with this last move



the vertical stripe is down to the minimal



a close up look and compare it to the one on the left...so what do you think guys..is this pay day or i should work out a different method?

the trash would be okay bos..as we only want to see the zimmerit result. dont worry if it doesnt look good, we are all here to learn from each other

It could be that the wide verticals are my own doing due to thick putty and perhaps applying a little too much pressure as excess putty gets squished out the sides when the applicator is rolled over it. We'll probably have to try again to see if your outcome (which looks good btw) can be replicated with the applicator. The stamps are provided in, IIRC, two sizes. I used the larger one.

yes bos..it would be good to see if the applicator could be made to perform with rolled putty.
just like i said a good applicator and good putty application method comes hand in hand, and i believe with little experiement and practice from everyone here will pool enough resource for us to create some good looking zimmerit...even the orang putih will envy us in due time.. :lol:


btw the rolled putty doesnt squish when stamping, dont know if it would when rolled on by the applicator...so you try it bos..coz i dont have the apllicator.
its best to wait a while and let the putty harden abit before stamping, and try to work in small parts , coz in larger parts would only put pressure on ourself to get the stamping or rolling done quickly before the putty harden, and from my limited experience when you rush in doing zimmerit you always get fingerprints on your zimmerit or worse

Zimmerit coating are applied by hand in the factory floor of the panzers. Uneveness of the zimmmerit actually make it look realistic.

This photo of Micheal Wittman, we can have closed up view on the zimmerits of his Tiger.




You method works very well, I must say. I'm surprise the outcome of the self-improvised tool. But I think it's alittle too thick. Comparing with reference photos, your sample pics appear too deeply engraved.

Since zimmerit is hand applied, sometimes the zimmerit length are uneven as well. A "column" of zimmerit can look like "overlapping" the column beside, like the photos below. Note the zimmerit layer is quite thin.





This photo show the turret mantle side of zimmerit.


It's not necessary that major chipping of zimmerit will look realistic. If the tank is been hit by high caliber shots or AP shot, the zimmerit will chip off. Small arms will just create scratches normally... no huge chunk of zimmerit falling off. Also, reference photo show that zimmerit chipping due to crew traffic is very minimal.

This photo in enlarge to view a KO Tiger of LSSAH 101st near Bocage. Note the zimmerit chips around the kill shot by AP rounds.





Another photo of Tank 222 towing the legendary Tank 231, borrowed by Wittman during the Bocage Battle:



Close up on the Tank 231 behind, we can see most of the Zimmerit are still intact and clean. Only the place hit by large caliber will chip.



Tank 222 also participated in battle, and zimmerit still look clean.

Ok. Last night I applied the epoxy onto the tank and try to make the zimmerit for the first time. I must say I doen't have any experince before and the result is not as good.

Like bro flylice80 said, it is actually thin until almost can see the tank body plastic. because the applicator will push the excessive putty away. But quite hard to control to make it even. I find that the Tamiya zimmerit coating applicator are not that handy on the rounded surface.

I used the 0.7. maybe the 0.5 will be better?







:)

tom , perhaps you should try experiment first on the tank's underbelly to see the results...

Tom,

Your zimmerit looks ok. Just some portions of it look like you are working too fast.

It seems like you apply putty to the entire surface before you scrap with Tamiya's applicator. It looked exactly like mine when I first tried it. You should try do section by section slowly. So don't apply the putty to the entire surface first. When you scrap, you can find that the scrapped putty can fill up the empty surface.

The side hull looks good in the front part, but the rear part showed that putty is actually partly dried when you worked on that section. Try to do the side hull 3 times. First the front, then middle, then rear.

I'm actually interested to see how you did the rear zimmerit around the exhaust... it's quite challenging on that part. :lol:

Another thing is, there's a wide gap between your zimmerit. According to the reference photos, they shouldn't be too wide, or shouldn't be there at all. Because the factory workers use only spade-like hand tools to make them. However, not all zimmeritted tank rolls out of factory. During the mid war, some tank regiment/battalions are provided with raw material and the crews made the zimmerit at field. As a result, different kind of pattern can be seen. So it really depends which tank you are modeling. If you are particular and fussy... then better work with a reference photo.

If you're modeling a mid/late type Tiger or King Tiger (before November 1944), then the tank is most likely had zimmerit factory applied, like the photo above of Tank 222. Even so, if you look closely, you can see the turret side's zimmerit is wider while the other parts are narrower. Those which are applied on field are easily chipped. Some crews even zimmerit the schutzens.

As a conclusion, there's no standard way of zimmerit. Using applicator can also automatically create realistic chips (like the top right side of your front hull). Masking the unwanted areas work better, will also automatically create natural chips along the edges like in the wartime photo.

Those days I used tamiya's putty to make zimmerit... but it doesn't look nice. I switched to squardron putty, it looks better. Also, roughen the surface slightly with low grid sand paper will help the putty to hold, so that you don't scrap too much of putty away.

Also, underneath the zimmerit (the area which the zimmerit chips off) would appear to be the red primer color or panzer yellow color. For Tigers such as the LSSAH, it'd be yellow.

If you are planning to build any tank of the LSSAH 101st, I have alot of references. ^_^

Tom.... need to say i seldom give comments , for the sake of not offending anyone, but guess at times one needs to voice out for the sake of improvement for everyone., hope you wouldnt mind ya bos.

the zimmerit doesnt look good...what you create is the huge vertical stripe in between the bars, try to minimize the veritcal stripes and bring the bars closer together.
brader kay is right..you should practice before applying on your tank, just take your time brader, you can of course scrap it all away and try again.
btw.. real zimmerit paste are applied by hand and later rolled into patent also by hand. so sometimes you get very thick zimmerit and at times thin...depending on the mood of the man with the job...so there is no rules that says you have to make it thin...but of course it does look nice when its thin

Sorry , please forgive me if i am impolite, the horizontal line looks great!!! as ari told us vertical line looks too straight.


Just my 2 cents

Thank you bro flylice80, bro ari and bro wuichong for all the feedbacks. Good to hear comments and helps to improved my skills.

Bro flylice80 was right, I am spreading the putty on the entire surface before I start to scrap. Will avoid doing that in the future. Thanks bro flylice80 :)

I am planning to build the King Tiger Porsche turret which was used in battle of the eastern front, very little reference I can find on the net..can't even find the correct turret number either. Perhaps I didn't try hard enough :)

Btw, the epoxy putty quick type that I used still didn't harden. Why?? Ok then, so I can re-do the front hull :D

Maybe I should used the different type of putty which have to mix with hardener that is selling in the local hardware shop? Any advise?

I don't recall seeing any Porsche King Tiger in action in the Eastern Front. If my memory serves me well, Porsche King Tiger saw action in Normandy and Arnhem, all against the allied forces. It was issued to Pz.abt 503 & Pz.abt 506 if I'm not mistaken.

I have several books on Tiger and King Tiger (mainly Tiger 1), and some pictures in softcopy on King Tiger. Perhaps I could send them to you if you PM me your email address.

Are you using those 2 part epoxy putty for your model? You need to mix the putty with a "hardener". If you mix too little hardener, you'll take a longer time to harden. If you don't mix at all, it won't harden at all.

You can use your putty that doesn't harden for masking use.

I suggest you can use Squardron Putty for zimmerit. I don't use Tamiya coz it harden supersonic fast and it's not as fine as squardron.