Can anyone identify the vehicle in the background? Is it Ausf E or F?



:lol:

bang.....tu bukan ke kenderaan dalam citer star wars kan??? :lol: :wacko:

AT-AT Walkers kan

Yeah, as we all know, German used them in WW2

But Ausf E ker F?

aku pon boleh edit gambar camtu bang...real ke nih?... ^_^

Looks like a E model to me, coz of the drum type of cupola..the later model has got a lower profile cupola. This is really a rare pic ni...hahaha

es ist ein Panzer, der eine erstaunliche Art, daß der Feind Gänsehaut geben würde .. ^_^ ^_^ B)

Ah yes Lim..that is what I thought. Also cos got MG42 on top cupola.

But problem is, main gun looks too small to be 7.5cm Pak40 L/46. Looks more like twin mount 5cm Pak38 L/60

Hmmm maybe late production Aust E? or a field modification?

Agree with Lim, it's the E model. The F has a smaller cockpit (head) and the cupola for the F version is further up front. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lim and others,

i dont think it's an E or F ..
on closer inspection (i brought my mag lenses). look on the left of the turret and manlet.. The dome shape of the left turret told me that this is a M (early) version. Early M version simplified cupola and the late version have 14x periscope install on the perimeter.
The main gun is not pak 40 or pak 38. The breach block and the protruding hinges on the top suggested it's either the powerful KwK 80 L/90 or KwK 90 L/120 gun as fitted in the latter Aus G to Aus P of this vehicle

Those zimmerit on the lower hull also tell this is an upgrade version from an early production M to the late version. Practice to applied zimmerit halted in mid 1945.

So you are saying this is a early version Ausf M that was upgraded to a later model in the field? So I guess this photo is taken after 1943?

Some other question:
1. What about camo? standard german dark yellow/red brown/green?
2. What is the designation? Sd.Kfz?
3. Is there any Stuka-zu-fuss, SP gun, AA gun version of this?
4. Which unit? I thought it may be 130 Panzer-Lehr-Division. Any ideas?
5. Location : Ardennes? Bastogne?

Any help is great as I am not so familiar with German AFV in WW2 :D

Shah,

1. hmm on close inspection, and judging by the hue and the shadow of the vehicle, i can say it was painted with the standard dark yellow with soft edges redbrown..the uneven red brown patern was the evidence that the pattern was applied on the field..

2. sd.kfz 74/12 aus M (late)

3. maybe there were.... there are many field modification to this vehcile from the original sd.kfz 74/3 to the 74/93 aus P ... some evidence shown a few Flak 37 and 36 were fitted also.

4. Hmmmm.... confirm this vehicle in the photo belong to the SS 21 Panzer Div and the turret number suggested this is the 3rd vehicle of the second company... from the Shwere Panzer Abtielug IXX

5. Bastogne

Guten Tag,

Ok, ok I hate to throw a spanner in the works, Mein freund but despite being a "Hei, that-looks-like-a-tank I think" guy I will have to say its neither a E or a F-variant. Instead its a rare D variant.

I think what my well informed colleagues before me may have missed out is its antenna located just at the back. Unlike earlier German's elaborate spider-web like antenna this is a simple, one piece wire.

As for the camo, its hard to tell from the grainy pic but it would likely be early German camo after 1941 if I have to hazard a guess. As for the location its probably likely to be either France or the Belgium lowlands.

Now tanks I may not know much but guns, I have more than a passing knowledge of being fascinated with man's preoccupation with all things big and go boom. :rolleyes: A MG34 at the turret top with likely dual drum magazines. Mid turret guns are likely to be 20 mm. Rheinmetal firing high velocity rounds and the pair of big guns are actually very, very rare 90 mm. experimental guns from Krupp which is only found in vehicles like the D-variant. How I can tell, check out the muzzle break.

Of course the 90 mm. were phased out in favour of the ever, adaptable 88-mm. in the E and F-variants. Just my regular 2.5 German cents.

Can't help with your Panzer but this brings back memories of the Essel Kampfwagen discussion we had some time ago :) :D

Pooh, do u mean this one


hahaha...read the discussion Here

Deng Deng Deng the plot thickens....

So, rare Ausf D because of the radio antenna and 90mm experimental guns...that means this is a very rare photo indeed. We rule out E and F

Could there be any chance its a hybrid, as some indications are late model (zimmerit, copula with periscope etc) and some early (schmalturm, radio antenna and 90mm)?

A rare Ausf D modified in the field to Ausf M standard? That would make sense?

Did any of these serve with the DAK?

Yup, that's the one alright, Zaidi :D

Can't help laughing at every read through. Hahahaaa

i dont think it's an aus D..... you might be confused with the thick 60mm armor plate on the front,... it's actually the newer version of the 80mm armor plate..
aus A to aus F had the standard factory 60mm plate whereas the later and newer version were upgraded to 80mm plate. This make the total weight increases to almost 100% of the original. for standard fitting on aus M the weight is almost 120 tonne. To make this beast or tank move faster a newer engine was installed. It was fitted with the new 500000 HP watercooled Maybach 700-5 Aus K diesel engine. The evidence is the large intake and the multiple baffle exhaust chamber at the back of the vehicles... this clearly said it's an Aus M coz only Aus M was installed with this engine.
The antenna in aus D maybe missing due to combat!

Aaah....I must have missed the armor thickness. Danke Herr Kapitanleutenant for pointing it out. Still you must admit the rare 90 mm. guns from Krupp were only found in the D-variant.

Hope this doesn't add to the confusion but...the 80mm factory fitted was actually derived from the so called field fitted up armored 60mm type. It wasn't uncommon for the crews to add 20mm to the front armor for better protection. This of course caused engine problems and based on crew feedback, the 80mm armor type with the 500000 HP watercooled Maybach 700-5 Aus K diesel engine was born. Hence the confusion between early 60mm, field fitted up armor and factory fitted 80mm.

cheers

So, then its a Ausf M with the Ausf D guns on it? A Aust D (mod) M ?

BTW, those 90mm Krupp gun..is it based on 8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56?

Was there a Trop version? For DAK?

Shah,

it should be an aus M (late)... aus D has different cupola and exhaust..

not sure if this was in service in africa.... need another expert to verify this

I think Tamiya is producing this in 1/16 motorized version with seperate track links.

However the picture is obviously a fake because the men in the foreground are slouching actors and are not members of the proud Aryan race.Also the tanks have the wrong camoflage and appear toylike.

If I were to hazard a guess I would say this is the last surviving example of this type that is being preserved in Bovington and has been brought to operational status , however rumour has it ,that the original engine has been replaced with a Izusu Trooper's one.

Most sad indeed. A WWII relic, a living piece of history only to end up having a Japanese engine. A sign of the times I suppose since the Japanese have pretty much taken over the auto industry.

As for serving with the DAK in North Africa I remember an article a while back that a regiment was sent right after El Alamein which was a bit too late. In fact the supply ship carrying them which reached the Tunisian harbor narrowly escaped being torpedoed en route. Btw it seems those being sent were mainly the E-variant which were modified with finer mesh at the air intakes and wider footpads for desert conditions.

Ah Hui : I would dispute your findings that the photo is fake. In fact, it was sourced from reliable sources. As reliable as a japanese car I must add.

However, looks like we all agree that this Sd.Kfz 74/12 Ausf M (late) is genuine. Beachbum, thanks for the info of the DAK version. Looks like a few are now at the bottom of the Mediterranean?

I am thinking of building a Trop version. I guess it would look something like this?

Yes the tropical dust filter is accurate.However this model was only used at
El Alamein as it only arrived at the end of the African Campaign.
Rommel was quoted saying
"Zis 'Sd.Kfz 74/12 Ausf M (late)' is now the ultimate weapon in the desert" he also said when it was late in shipment..."The Furher is not as forgiving as I am"

it is rumoured that the Nazi band played a tune that was stolen by John Williams who later named it Imperial March.

Montgomery was also quoted saying "I have a Bad feeling about this"

Did anyone know the DAK also used observation baloons in the desert?

This was a simple and silent way to creep up on the Allies at night for low profile reconaissance and targeting work. The LRDG was scared shit of them.

This is one of the balloon used...



Think it was manufactured by Gotha or Fieseler....

What scared the LRDG guys *bleep!*-less was the sound it made when they fired up the gas propellant for hot air. It made this eerie breathing sound.

Smell of bad breathe was also thought to be poison gas or early form of chemical warfare.

Richard.

and.... the DAK anti-infantry mine:



Often painted in white with blue strips to lure small arm from enemy to fire at it and detonates when shot. :lol:

i think we had concluded the vehicle in the photo is an sd.kfz 74 Aus M (late version)...
maybe it was use for DAK...

anyway, while searching for the info of the vehicles i found an old secret file with a few photos..

can any AFV sifu identify what vehicle is this??

A rare photo of Hitler's Troy. Designed with innocent look to infiltrate the british base. The design is light so that can be used by the fallschimjagers.

that's look like SS unit.... so the designation??

Ah, I like that one...rare pic indeed.

My opinion is that it is a high speed decoy and attack sled: Sd.Kfz 530/2 Sonderkraftfahrzeug . Used in snow and sandy condition. This picture may be Ausf A (mid production)

Not technically an AFV...but can carry 4 soldiers into combat. Usually towed behind armoured cars such as the SdKfz 221-234 series. It was quite popular to decorate the control handles to look like a horse, as a good luck charm.

Looks like the soldiers are obviously having training on how to ride it "right"

I give up!
I have nothing to add....
KHAHAHAAHAHAAHAahahahaahHAHAHAHAAH........

Good one guys..... :lol: Really made my day....

..... and no wonder germany lost the war :P