Hi All,

I'm really having some troubles looking for the right and economical tracks for my Tamiya 1/35 King Tiger (henschel turret). The rubber (vinyl actually) tracks comes in the box is awefully bad!!! Absolutely not acceptable.

After intensive research, I found a few companies who has this product:

1) Tamiya

2) Hobby Boss

3) Friul Modelismo

4) Model Kasten


Initially I wish I could get my hands on the Model Kasten ones, surprisingly the price tag make my jaw dropped to the keyboard. Paying a few extra I could get Friulmodel's metal tracks!

I'm also surprise to find Hobby Boss in the list, and at a price cheaper than Tamiya's. I'm really interested in it, just want to get a few suggestions from sifu around here.

My Questions:

1) Anyone used Hobby Boss Track links (any tank) before? How is it?

2) Model Kasten & Fruil Model come with approxmately 210 track links (so that can fit the JagdTiger). HobbyBoss come with only 180 links. Does 180 links enough for the tank to look realistic? How many links does the actual King Tiger has?

3) Hobby Boss claim the track links are "workable". I had nightmare when some PE workable brackets are not actually workable. Just wanna be careful here, is it workable like real tracks?

I'd really appreciate any sort of help and replies.

BRo, not really an expert but i will try to answer...

first, the which tamiya kit that u got?? i build a few tamiya tigers, panthers variant including the jadgpanther ,king tiger etc...and i used their rubber tracks....some are good especially the king tiger.... i mean the newer one where u can just use regular plastic cement to glue them together...

anyway, tamiya also produced indy link for the king tigers...i used some of which include as a spare in one of their kit...they look good
you can have a look here

ok..now to answer your question

1) Anyone used Hobby Boss Track links (any tank) before? How is it?

sorry, i never used HB tracks...i assumed it should be ok


2) Model Kasten & Fruil Model come with approxmately 210 track links (so that can fit the JagdTiger). HobbyBoss come with only 180 links. Does 180 links enough for the tank to look realistic? How many links does the actual King Tiger has?

i forgot how many links for each of them, but normally, they supplied a few more extras just in case. Anyway mind u that both modelkasten and fruil tracks are a expensive. MK tracks are high quality plastic injection. I work with 3 set of MK tracks before and they are good.
Fruils on the other hand are made of white metal. Both MK and Fruils are workable (they had the unworkable set but i think it's quite rare to find these days)
The assembly of both tracks are different even from set to set (type of tanks)... but both required u to insert a series of pin inside every tracks join, making it workable..

3) Hobby Boss claim the track links are "workable". I had nightmare when some PE workable brackets are not actually workable. Just wanna be careful here, is it workable like real tracks?

haha...its a tricks....it's not 100% workable...the only things is it will work like real tracks in term of sagging and appearance... maybe it will work a bit but if u intend to put them on RC tanks, except for fruit, the join will break making it useless... for most plastic workable tracks, each track is join with a small plastic pin.. no glue required but the bracket that hold the pin will surely cannot bear the pressure and sheer force of movement (friction etc)... so if they advertised as workable, they normally mean the tracks can be moved (limited) once they are installed but cannot be used if u want to play combat with it

just my 2 cents//

Yo Brother!!!

Great to hear from you and thank you for your in-depth explanation. How are you doing?

Well, the King Tiger kit I got was this:



It's almost 20 year old kit, not the version released after millenium.

The tracks in the kit was screwed up. I think it's because of the Malaysian heat during transportation or storage, the vinyl tracks become sotong ady. Other than that, it appears to be thinner than I expected. I'll take a photo of it if I got a chance.

I've invested Lion Roar PE set and turned aluminium barrel for this kit, I don't want the track to spoil the model.

King Tiger is a very heavy tank and I'd like to have the model looks heavy. The tracks will play a major role here and should have the "sagging" look. If I use Fruilmodel tracks, they should give me no problem. I'm just afraid the HobbyBoss set with only 90 link would not be enough and the tracks will end up look like very tight, hanging unsuspended between the roadwheels and the sprocket.

Now I'm struggling whether or not to pay 3 times more price for Fruilmodel. I can get it online between RM 170 ~ 180. For Hobby Boss, it'll just cost me RM 50 ~ 60. Tamiya's tracks are about RM 80~90 (I think MH got them.... not too sure). And ModelKasten easily will cost me RM 120 ~ 150.

I wanted it to be workable for the ease of installation and painting. I'm putting this tank into a diorama, so I need to assemble the tracks and wheels after I paint, apply mud and weathering.

i'm ok down here.... and thinking about ayam golek i had yesterday...hahaha

ok, that is very old kit...no wonder la kawan... i build the panther d (of the same era)... agree with u that the tracks are useless.... they only have the external surface details...the inside surface are flat....
pls check that do they had 2 sets of wheels on ever axles (thats 4 wheels both side).. those day, tamiya simplified things by omitting the wheels on the inside,,,

depending on ur budget, u may use any type of tracks...

only word of advice if u are planning to get Fruil, then just remember that working with white metal is not that fun...hard to glue etc...

Oh..... is it? Hmm..... magazine reviews and step-by-step built articles often use fruilmodel and highly praised. I thought should be robust and easy. hahaha.

This case... i think I'll get the HB and try it out first. Hopefully I don't waste my RM 60 on that. Modelkasten looks promising, but the price is doubled.

This time would probably be a guide for my future project.

I'm planning on another King Tiger diorama for future, depicting Otto Skorzeny standing on the hull while the King Tiger (Pz.abt 503) is ramming through some road blocks in Budapest (October 1944) and some hungarian soldier running away in fear from their AT guns.

It's a true scene of History, and the funny thing is that the Hungarian missed their chance to fire their AT guns at the belly of the King Tiger when it's ramming through the barricades and sandbags. It's an interesting subject and interesting diorama, shows a historical scene. This Otto Skorzeny really got balls. He suppressed the new Hungarian Government (who wants to offer peace offering to the Russians) without engaging into big battle.

Flylice80,

Once a while, I brought in Fruilmodel upon request by forum members. And the price is quite reasonable and not that high like what you have mentioned. You can contact forum member 'sentry' for any comments. He is the biggest buyer of this brand from me.
I have plan to bring this stuff in the future. If forum members show any interest, your feedback is most welcome. Then, you can see this stuff sooner.

Regards
YH Low

I just recently build the same kit :)

http://z12.invisionfree.com/ScaleModelsMal...?showtopic=5573


And the tracks fixed:
http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthrea...=81045#pid81045

I have tried modelkasten (Ausf.D Panzerkamfwagon IV) and fruimodel (Sheidan)

My simple Comments:

Modelkasten: Fragile to work with.. links may break while installing progress or painting.
http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthrea...=31233#pid31233


Fruimodel: A PAIN to use a pin vise to screw all those holes for the wire to link them out.
http://plamo.outthere.info/forum/showthrea...=48686#pid48686



I will stick to standard rubber tracks if i can :P
Yes, I am lazy! :)

Dear Maxwinamp,

Wow...that's a good King Tiger of the Pz.abt 505 ( If my memory serves me well). You used Eduard PE set? It's quite different from the Lion Roar I'm working on. I don't actually have really close up reference of the King Tiger, I have to rely on LE's instructions on the details. There seems to have differences from your PE set. I'll try to post my progress on this forum.

506th King Tiger would normally have dark yellow base with red brown camo, which is missing from your model.

My problem is that the rubber tracks comes with the kit is curled (probably due to heat during transportation) like sotong and very difficult to cure it. I'll need to borrow a digital cam to get a photo of it up. I tried using my mobile cam but.... really blur to show the small small details.

Thanks for the tips bro, and thanks for your photo as my reference. :P

Cheers

Pem,

Roughly how much it'll cost me for a Fruilmodel King Tiger tracks ar? Anyways, I already bought the Hobbyboss from the net slightly under Rm50. I don't really have much confidence in that, have to wait until I recieve them. I'm still open to the Fruilmodel option, if the Hobbyboss turns up to be crap.

Thanks.

Flylice80,

The price of the track is between 120~140.

Rgds
Low

I've used Fruils for my Karl Morser. Must say that they are very impressive, giving the realistic sag and not to mention weight to the end result.

There are some good articles online teaching the techniques of weathering fruils. The end result is really impressive. Mine still sits unpainted gathering dust.

Requires minimal cleaning and drilling of the holes. Actually, the holes are already drilled but some flash remains, so just minimal cleaning up. Took me 1.5 hours cleaning the fruils while watching TV. Really beats filling and sanding ejector pin marks on some plastic tracks.

Haha, when you work with something that cost you a bomb, you won't be bored. I'm actually tempting to get fruilmodel. But firstly, see how the hobbyboss turns up to me. I'm gambler.

Having seen the Fruilmodel tracks, I will reccommend them anytime for sheer realism.

Sil, last I checked, no glue involved????....just wires

I know Fruilmodel tracks are addictive. Many (about 50% i think) magazine build-progress articles will use them and I can read how Fruilmodel tracks poisoned the authors ;)

I believe Fruilmodel tracks are assembled without glue... they are workable and can really feel the weight of it.

I'm definitely in the interest to get Fruilmodel tracks off local Hobbyshop shelves, especially for heavy tanks in WW2 era ( Tiger, panther, King Tiger, JS2, KV 1, etc). . It's an important element in the model to make the model look heavy. T-34 won't look realistic without Fruil tracks, which is why I don't wan to build them.

I actually bought the Hobbyboss online before your (Pemlow) reply. I'll definitely take the option if can get it local shop.

Seems like every hobby company is getting into making aftermarket tracks. Besides HobbyBoss, Bronco (M1A1/A2, AS90, Leclerc, PZH2000, Ariete, Leopard 2, M48/M60) and Trumpeter (BMP1/2, M1A1/A2, ZTZ99, T-54/55,62, M2, Leopard 2, Ferdinand, Sherman, KV and JS tank, Challenger 2) has just announced theirs!

Probably because too many complains about vinyl tracks.... Like me. I'm still trying to get hold a good photo of the track that came with the box. Totally rubbish. The only useful part of it is that i can use it as a soft platform for some bend/roll tiny PE parts.

Fly,
Well pre 80s kits are pretty addictive ... I remember these kits are simple engineered and easy to assemble.

Price is of course much cheaper than the current 2000AD kits just for thoughts.

I think there needs to be a modeler compromise .. cheap kit of course lower expection, even if you have the retooled Tamiya Tigers welll ... their tracks ain't "super" either.

As for Aftermarket tracks, well its a matter of personal preference. I would not think of any kit as rubbish, except if you pay heavy $$$ for something that does not fit the price then that's a very expensive "kit" ...

that said the most economical compromise would be to get some "elcheapo" After mart tracks from a main stream plastic producer eg AFV/Tamiya which some might cost about the same price as the kit you bought ... and if you go super then those fruil tracks might come in handy...

Just my 2 cents...

SAC 33, the Tamiya King Tiger was not the pre 80s one. It's the early 90s (or late 80s?) release.

yes i do agree...its a matter of preference, and it all depends on who is doing the building. an el cheapo rubbish kit could be turned into a master piece in the right hands, while a high tech kit will turn into rubbish if the builder is an unskilled one.
personally i will sapu all...good kit, bad kit cheap or expensive...it doesnt matter, a good kit means less work, while a bad kit needs more work to get it up to standard.
sometimes we pay a high price for a kit and dont get what we deserve in return, and at times a cheap kit will really surprise you on the amount of details offered, in my personal collection i have over 400 tanks, most of them unbuilded, could never find time for it somehow, but the point is i had laid eyes on plenty of armoured kits...and what i can say is Tamiya is not the best around as many led to believe. compare tamiya's King tiger to Dragon's premium edition, tamiya clearly had a lot to learn from dragon. included are the smart track...and that makes buying after market track a thing of the past. the amount of PE included makes one wonder if tamiya is still sleeping or what...im very sure rubber tracks is history in today's armour modelling world, and isnt it a waste to pay such a price tamiya is asking and get rubber tracks in return? frankly recent trumpeter kits are far better than what tamiya is offering.

i still buy tamiya of course but only old reissued kits, the price is affordable and mainly these are the kits i grew up with.
the thing i guess you could do is to use the side skirts on the king tiger, in the sense that you will hide most of the upper part of the track or simply use pastel and paste the tracks in mud

Sorry I couldn't get a picture of the tracks I'm facing in front of me. Both of the tracks are actually bengkok and abit crippled like sotong (probably due to heat). It's pretty difficult to hide it under the side skirt. I test fitted those tracks and found that the only way I could get it right is to add weight to the tank, then install the tracks in such a way that the bengkok portion (which is close to the joint) is under the wheels and let the weight of the tank press the vinyl tracks straight.

There are alot of molding flashes on the inside part of the tracks. I could add some muds, but not too much coz I'm planning a diorama where the King Tiger is in an urban fight in Hungary. The King Tiger will be running on cobblestone roads.


Also, I'm using PE parts for side skirts, I'm going to make a battleworn tank with some of the sideskirts missing, some bend. Which is very common in battlefield, and as far as picture shows, only King Tigers with full sideskirt pictures in training ground or for propaganda show.

Dragon and Tamiya, i think their marketing strategy is different. For pro-modelers like you, Tamiya kits are subpar and dragon offers much superb and complete details. But pro-modellers are only a tiny fraction of the modeling market. Tamiya kits are simple, but are well engineered and took consideration of the person who is building it. You can completely assemble Tamiya's kit in an afternoon and complete the painting in another afternoon. Very suitable for novice modeler and modellers who don't have patience, and capture a considerable share in the market.

If I've got options, I wouldn't choose Tamiya myself. I sill prefer Dragon and Trumpeter. For low budget kits, I'd prefer academy, in fact, most of my stash are Dragon and Academy kits.

i doubt about the amout of battle damage or battle worn looks coz the king tigers 503rd are using at budapest are brand new bos, they got it on 9th september 44 , loaded on trains and arrived in budapest on 14th october.
another bad news is they are coated in zimmerit...so if you plan to build your tank as one of 503, then zimmerit is a must.
btw not all king tiger with full skirts are picture for training ground or propanganda.

this is a 503 tiger in budapest

Dear Ari,

The 503rd Batalion in Budapest October 1944 is led by Skorzeny to stop the Hungarian Government to have peace offering with the Russians. The 503rd battalion there is mainly to suppress the Hungarian forces. Although the 503rd Battalion hit their 1500th kill score in that campaign, but very limited battle are fought there, and Hungary is not the frontline against Russians that time. There are very little photos taken during that time because they have totally sealed the entire city.

503rd King Tiger propaganda parade in Budapest.



Compared with a 509th taken in Hungary March 1945. Pzabt 509 was refitted with King Tigers on Dec 1944 and fought with the Russians in Hungary and Austria.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3514/pzabt509march1945.jpg



So... I'd say the 503rd Tiger Battalion's main purpose there in October is to show their firepower to create pressure and to arrest the Hungarian Government.

I'm not planning for this 503rd Battalion October ~ November 1944. I'm planning on diorama in Hungary very late 1944 or early 1945 when other battalions redrawn to Hungary to resist the Russians. Heavy battle was going on over there.

Russians started offensive during November 1944 and encircled Budapest on the end of December 1944. The battle of Budapest is comparable to Stalingrad and Berlin. The battle went on until almost the end of war.

Some pictures of the 503rd Tiger early 1945.

well, you say something about skorzeny ramming barricades, so i thought it was the oct period your are building...hahaha. i think what you mean to say is ..you plan to build one from the relieve operations...correct?
anyway...budapest siege is nothing compared to stalingrad bos, the russian took their time in that siege, they knew the war is almost over, so not many of them are stupid enough to fight it out toe to toe with the germans.

the heaviest fighting is done by the germans who are order to relieve the siege, led by the 5th ss pz div wiking and 3rd ss pz div totenkopf, and later joined by 111 pzkorp ,they tired 3 times, operation konrad 1, 11, and 111
stalin personally ordered that they are stop at all cost, there more soviet troops and their best around konrad operational area then there was for the budapest siege.
the 5th ss made their best tank kill ration of the entire war during this period, an entire soviet corp, the 135th rf corp was destroyed. ss pzgr westland came within 20km of west budapest...but that was all.

budapest siege did not last until almost end of the war bos, its over by Feb 13th 45. and it lasted that long simply bcos the russian had waited it out, not bcos the germans and hungarian had put up a good fight. there was no fierce stalingard style attacks, every street they took was poundered by artillery for hours before the troops went in...led by infantry not tanks...the unusal soviet tactics. the commanders are saving their tanks for berlin. its not until stalin went crazy for the lack of progress did the russian finally put in their their big guns and tanks into the attack...and that was that, the city fell like a brick wall

Well, I did mention skorzeny, but I think that will be a later project for me, coz I don't have references for Hungarian army at that time.

So for now, I'm just planning a diorama in HUngary early 1945. A King Tiger roaring across a cobblestone street, beside is a damaged shoplot with a Russian SPG hiding in it. SOme german infantry (most probably Totenkopf) attacked the SPG from behind. Some dead russians, and some russians surrendering.

Thanks for the info.