Title: Hm
Dor'ika - March 26, 2007 07:37 PM (GMT)
This is just a though, open for discussion. I'm basing this off of my time on the server, and my thoughts concerning it. . .
Now, first off I am finding the fact that every single person knows what a Jedi is, hard to believe. Jedi are something mystical, and very rarely does some random joeblow, or soldier know what a Jedi is, or the extent of his powers. The same stands with Sith. Even to an extent, the Imperial Knights. Many would only understand they have powers beyond belief, and a lightsaber. . . but thats a stretch on many backwater worlds. My proof? Aside from the fact that all three of our force factions are having trouble sustaining thier numbers, thus there are fewer then a hundred, many people wouldn't see them. Even when the Jedi Order in the Old Republic was strong, Obi-Wan said this :
"You must remember that there are over a hundred thousand inhabited worlds in the Republic, and there are now only a few thousand of us. Billions of beings have never seen a Jedi. Millions have never even heard of our Order. Or of the Force. When we do appear, we can be killers, but also healers. Thank the Force for that." Another thing, I've found hard to believe is the fact that every Bounty Hunter ( one could even assume my character, Dor'ika when he was Bounty Hunting is guilty of this ) believes they can just challange a Jedi's power. Now a note that should be considered ( in my defense ) that Mandalorians are generally fearless, thus this wouldn't be a concern. Though with many others, they're born in the outer rim, and rarely have encountered Jedi. If they have, they know to a minute extent the range of thier powers. Anakin Skywalker as a boy once challange Qui-Gon to the fact he was a Jedi, Qui-Gon retorted that he was no Jedi, that he killed one. The common belief, as shared by Anakin. Rarely can Jedi die. So while powerful, we all know and understand ( thank you Episode 3 ) that Jedi can die. Many people are blinded by the fact that the Lightsaber, and the all mystical force is with them. What people cannot understand, or explain, they fear. In Canon Star Wars, its generally and widely accepted that there are only a few "Jedi Hunters", yet on here. Almost every Bounty Hunter after a Jedi, Sith, or Imperial Knight, just dives right in. Sure, some form of tactical thought is put into it, but. . . Where is the fear, and the lackluster for the Force? It is not here, for sure.

Generally, the knowledge that a weapon can do something like this. Would strike the hand of god into someone. Imaigin, you are a common thug, or fool, you've only heard stories of the Jedi's power. Though, you have seen first hand what a Lightsaber can do, which is something to the effect of the above shown picture. Would you not think twice about entering combat against a man holding something remotely looking like a Lightsaber?

Here lies another concern of mine. After a short convosation with various people, there seems to be a problem concerning how people view the common stance of what a "Lightsaber Stance" is. Point and blank, more then a way to swing your blade, it is a way of doing battle. Example you ask for? Happily I direct you to the most shown one, and perhaps the easiest to understand.
"Yoda was a formidable practitioner of lightsaber combat; his preferred choice was Form IV (Ataru), and the form which he mastered to its highest degree." Exhibit A. Master Yoda's choice form of combat is, Form IV. An example of his style in picture :

If you've seen the movies, you know what I mean by this picture. The leaping, jumping around, the use of the Force which Form IV is.
"In addition to his mastery of the Force, Jinn was also a master in Form IV: Ataru, often having sparred with Master Mace Windu. "

Exhibit B. Master Qui-Gon Jinn. A notable master of the same exact form as Master Yoda. Yet, does the way they swing thier blades look anything alike? No. Yoda uses increased Jumping, while Qui-Gon focus' on uses the force to aid his muscles, only jumping when need be.
Both, though are claimed to be Masters of the Form. What am I getting at?
The claim the Form your character uses reflects upon your In-Game Form, is rather. . . stupid. I mean, if you've gotten into the comics. You have come to understand that though, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq both have Vapaad under thier belts, they fight NOTHING like Mace Windu.
I suppose I'm just pointing out a few inconstiances. Although I'd like to bring up one last point. . .
Fleet Battles in Text RPs? =D
Kaizun - March 26, 2007 07:41 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Dor'ika @ Mar 26 2007, 07:37 PM) |
This is just a though, open for discussion. I'm basing this off of my time on the server, and my thoughts concerning it. . .
Now, first off I am finding the fact that every single person knows what a Jedi is, hard to believe. Jedi are something mystical, and very rarely does some random joeblow, or soldier know what a Jedi is, or the extent of his powers. The same stands with Sith. Even to an extent, the Imperial Knights. Many would only understand they have powers beyond belief, and a lightsaber. . . but thats a stretch on many backwater worlds. My proof? Aside from the fact that all three of our force factions are having trouble sustaining thier numbers, thus there are fewer then a hundred, many people wouldn't see them. Even when the Jedi Order in the Old Republic was strong, Obi-Wan said this :
"You must remember that there are over a hundred thousand inhabited worlds in the Republic, and there are now only a few thousand of us. Billions of beings have never seen a Jedi. Millions have never even heard of our Order. Or of the Force. When we do appear, we can be killers, but also healers. Thank the Force for that."
Another thing, I've found hard to believe is the fact that every Bounty Hunter ( one could even assume my character, Dor'ika when he was Bounty Hunting is guilty of this ) believes they can just challange a Jedi's power. Now a note that should be considered ( in my defense ) that Mandalorians are generally fearless, thus this wouldn't be a concern. Though with many others, they're born in the outer rim, and rarely have encountered Jedi. If they have, they know to a minute extent the range of thier powers. Anakin Skywalker as a boy once challange Qui-Gon to the fact he was a Jedi, Qui-Gon retorted that he was no Jedi, that he killed one. The common belief, as shared by Anakin. Rarely can Jedi die. So while powerful, we all know and understand ( thank you Episode 3 ) that Jedi can die. Many people are blinded by the fact that the Lightsaber, and the all mystical force is with them. What people cannot understand, or explain, they fear. In Canon Star Wars, its generally and widely accepted that there are only a few "Jedi Hunters", yet on here. Almost every Bounty Hunter after a Jedi, Sith, or Imperial Knight, just dives right in. Sure, some form of tactical thought is put into it, but. . . Where is the fear, and the lackluster for the Force? It is not here, for sure.

Generally, the knowledge that a weapon can do something like this. Would strike the hand of god into someone. Imaigin, you are a common thug, or fool, you've only heard stories of the Jedi's power. Though, you have seen first hand what a Lightsaber can do, which is something to the effect of the above shown picture. Would you not think twice about entering combat against a man holding something remotely looking like a Lightsaber?

Here lies another concern of mine. After a short convosation with various people, there seems to be a problem concerning how people view the common stance of what a "Lightsaber Stance" is. Point and blank, more then a way to swing your blade, it is a way of doing battle. Example you ask for? Happily I direct you to the most shown one, and perhaps the easiest to understand.
"Yoda was a formidable practitioner of lightsaber combat; his preferred choice was Form IV (Ataru), and the form which he mastered to its highest degree." Exhibit A. Master Yoda's choice form of combat is, Form IV. An example of his style in picture :

If you've seen the movies, you know what I mean by this picture. The leaping, jumping around, the use of the Force which Form IV is.
"In addition to his mastery of the Force, Jinn was also a master in Form IV: Ataru, often having sparred with Master Mace Windu. "

Exhibit B. Master Qui-Gon Jinn. A notable master of the same exact form as Master Yoda. Yet, does the way they swing thier blades look anything alike? No. Yoda uses increased Jumping, while Qui-Gon focus' on uses the force to aid his muscles, only jumping when need be.
Both, though are claimed to be Masters of the Form. What am I getting at?
The claim the Form your character uses reflects upon your In-Game Form, is rather. . . stupid. I mean, if you've gotten into the comics. You have come to understand that though, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq both have Vapaad under thier belts, they fight NOTHING like Mace Windu.
I suppose I'm just pointing out a few inconstiances. Although I'd like to bring up one last point. . .
Fleet Battles in Text RPs? =D |
Just common ignorance from some of our players.
carath - March 26, 2007 07:51 PM (GMT)
If I'm playing an NPC and I’m against a Jedi, I tend to back down and run away. But if it's one of my Characters..... I'm not just gonna stand there and be killed. I try to escape, but when it comes down to it... I'm gonna fight, not stand there like a little girl and allow them to decapitate me.
As for the Stances, the visual appearance of a Lightsaber Form can be, and often is different with every practitioner. It's not so much how you hold your blade, or sometimes even the way you swing. It tends to be about the speed, accuracy, power and the way the force is used to intertwine with these attacks. But I see were your coming from.
Sedi - March 26, 2007 09:13 PM (GMT)
The writers of the comics, the choreographers from the movies, and George Lucas do not think about the saber forms when they write/direct. I personally think the whole 7 saber forms thing is goofy, but meh.
Cydon Prax' - March 26, 2007 09:24 PM (GMT)
I'm not going to bother to lie, I'm not even going to try and cover myself. Oh yeah, I've done that. Yesterday my BH, though conistent with the biograph, had a talk with a Jedi and called him ''master'' in a sort of inconsistent character way. Perhaps this is where you got the idea to write this because, frankly, you were there last night to see it. However, I'm inclined to point out this was directly in correlation with the way the Jedi percieve themselves..
You see, here, we have a system which blantly shows that to be an FS user you are either level 10 and able to defend yourself, or ''other'' and always ''in training'' to reach the goal of level 10. So our Jedi are in the mind-set that they are in fact not gods, and do not hold a weapon capable of breaking through starship shields in minute seconds. This changes the way they in fact rp, which changes the way we interpret what they say and do and thus changes the way we act torwards them.
It is very simular to the way western worlds have the map of the world. Where greenland is as large as Africa and the US is as large as russia. The perspective of how things are in relation to others of the same type, I.E. stronger jedi, change everyones perspective. Numbers trick people into believing overall strength. Did you know the fact that the US and Europe are on the top of the map allows people to immediately degrade southern countries as 3rd world countries and lesser? Did you know Russia, unlike our common maps, is only as thick in height as the United States and not as tall as both canada and the US?
Perspective is everything.
Dor'ika - March 26, 2007 09:36 PM (GMT)
Actually Bose, I got this idea in watching one of the movies, then reading a comic. Watching how people react when a character reveals he's a Jedi. . .
Then I thought of how people act on the server. . .
Cydon Prax' - March 26, 2007 09:39 PM (GMT)
Good, was thinking I actually made a mistake somewhere for a change :lol:
But you do strike a point. Lightsaber plus magic = run. Period.
AcesUp - March 26, 2007 09:44 PM (GMT)
Meh,
The reason why people aren't afraid of Jedi during combat is because everyone wants to beat a Jedi. If you defeat one in combat their basically thinking; "Sick... I beat one of the best well rounded fighters in Star Wars!"
Hardly anyone "runs" during roleplay why? Because it doesn't make for good roleplay. Sure a smart roleplayer would run when he's out numbered or up against someone who he knows he'll get demolished by in combat. Though when we do run, we're usually accused of uberly escaping and flamed until we finally give in and get WTFPWNED for a lack of better words.
I haven't experienced this in this community yet, which is a good thing but in past communities it happened alot.
Sure Jedi's shouldn't be known by every single being in the galaxy, but in all honostly the majority of Jedi's I met make it known that their a Jedi, and don't go to too much trouble of hiding it.
StarCow - March 26, 2007 10:28 PM (GMT)
I've never been up against a Jedi in battle, but I have fought a Shadow Trooper with a gravistaff. I tried to run at that time, though it was unsuccessful to an extent.
And pretty much everyone knows what a Jedi is. They're a huge part of modern history at this time and the Empire has the Imperial Knights who do business in the open. You have to live under a rock to not know what a Jedi is in this time period.
Bendak Saul - March 26, 2007 11:45 PM (GMT)
Well, the huge jedi order has been destroyed for some time now, and IK aren't everywhere telling people everything about them, they just go about doing their job here and there.
StarCow - March 27, 2007 02:10 AM (GMT)
Well, it's still pretty common knowledge.
Dor'ika - March 27, 2007 06:24 AM (GMT)
Common knowledge?
The Jedi of the old Republic MADE the Old Republic what it is. New Sith Wars anyone? The Ruusan Reformation anyone?
Yet, still as Obi-Wan said. . . many didn't even come close to contemplating what a Jedi was.
Then where were thousands of Knights. . .
Now there are a handful, at best.
Dragon - March 27, 2007 08:25 AM (GMT)
I see where your coming from with this, I always wondered why every character decides they can defeat a Jedi. The fact is, if they know what a Jedi is then surely they should know they are powerful. There are several metagames which bug me:
1) Characters that encounter Jedi OOC’ly know their level. Someone is more likely to challenge a character whos level 1-4 than one who is 5-10 because they know they can win the lower levels.
2) Characters know that there are exploits to defeat Jedi, e.g. the sniper rifle. Because they know a sniper rifle can defeat a jedi they don’t hesitate to get into battle. More so those who spam the use of a grapple..
3) Everyone assumes that someone wearing robes is a Jedi, not really a metagame, but on so many worlds various robes are worn that deciding a person is a Jedi based on that is a metagame in some slight sense. The skywalker family wore robes on Tatooine etc along with many other civilians.
In regards to the lightsaber forms etc. In my opinion in a game like JA we have no choice but to fight going by the system we have of the stances. Someone who jumps a lot can be accused of exploiting in some cases and each lightsaber stance has its use.
Dor'ika - March 27, 2007 04:42 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Dragon @ Mar 27 2007, 03:25 AM) |
3)Everyone assumes that someone wearing robes is a Jedi, not really a metagame, but on so many worlds various robes are worn that deciding a person is a Jedi based on that is a metagame in some slight sense. The skywalker family wore robes on Tatooine etc along with many other civilians. |
In your assumption THATS not Metagame, its rather wrong.
Just an example from the movies, when Qui-Gon Jinn first comes to Watto. His common Jedi garbs did not show he was a Jedi, it wasn't until he attempted to Mindtrick him that Watto guessed. The reason Watto could guess he was a Jedi ( and even then all it is, is "Hey, whadda think you are, a Jedi?" ) was because of the natural Trydarian sense against Mindtrick.
Jedi robes are plain, unassuming, and are worn to blend in with the galactic populus as a whole. . . not stand out as so many people suggest.
Rè£îÇ - March 27, 2007 04:44 PM (GMT)
I'll have to agree on the above post.
Cydon Prax' - March 27, 2007 04:49 PM (GMT)
Star Wars Galaxies..
2+ years ago..
Me, three other firends sit at a camp near a city, wondering what the hell a Jedi in the game even looks like. 2 of us didn't even believe it existed in the server at all (galaxy). We had no clue..
Than, out of the blue, during our final minutes in the camp ready to leave, we turn our view to some idiot n00b (God to us at the time) with a blue lightsaber in REGULAR clothing (composite armor at the time), running parallel to us after or away from something. Torwards the city.
If that guy had turned and challenged ANY of us to a duel, ALL FOUR OF US simultaniously, we would of said hell no. Why? ITS A FRIGGEN JEDI! We have puny rifles, guns, droids and pets... he has a LIGHTSABER AND THE FORCE!.. the first time seeing a real Jedi, dressed just like you, with something that probably could of killed me in 5 seconds? Please.. try again. Wasn't about to fight that guy.
If that mentality was upheld by our current Jedi, and our current non-Jedi. Well, Dorian, your idea might just become a virtual reality.
Rè£îÇ - March 27, 2007 04:50 PM (GMT)
Assuming the jedi didn't have his saber in plain sight, it probably would've ended differently.
Kel - March 27, 2007 05:15 PM (GMT)
That is so true, the only force group that would stand out publically would be the Imperial Knights due to their uniform, but as for the others, you wouldn't be able to pick out that he's a Jedi from a crowd.
The point remains that throughout history, the Jedi have been very insular, and have done everything to keep general knowledge about the order a secret. Even the Sith did the same, as most didn't even know that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, and only those extremely high up in the Imperial hierarchy knew about it. Jedi history is not something that an ordinary citizen can go to a library and read for his pleasure, and the ordinary citizen has most likely and will most likely never encounter a Jedi. That's very evident before and during the clone wars as Jedi did not have a great reputation, and that's why it was so easy for the galaxy to turn on them during the new order.
Remus - March 27, 2007 05:53 PM (GMT)
Yeah I still remember the first time I saw a Jedi in SWG...
I was killing a few Imps at Dantooine, and suddenly, I looked left. Someone with a red lightsaber was there. And I was just.... ermmmm.... "WHAT THE KARK!". Jedi were very powerful then, and everybody feared them. Man I even feared the Teras Kasi Artists. But yes, seeing a Jedi a long time ago in SWG... I used to take screenies of them.